Beware of Toddler
 

I was just looking for some "this worked for me" type advice form anyone who has been thru the biting stage with a toddler. My main concern is that my daughter (22 mo) is occasionally biting her daycare pals during tussles over toys, and I don't want this to get out of control so that we are asked to leave the center (I LOVE it). Muzzles don't come in 2T. When she bites me at home, usually when she is tired, i hold her chin and look her in the eyes firmly saying "Katie, no biting, it hurts me. You need to ...say please (or whatever). Please kiss mommie's owie." She usually looks genuinely sad that she hurt me, and it only happens once a night, 2-3 times a week for the last 3 weeks. When I drop her off in the mornings, i look her in the eyes and tell her she needs to be gentle to her friends, so no biting, OK? If she does bite that day, she doesn't get her sucker that everyone gets when their parents come. (and i tell her you bit so-and-so today, so no sucker) Of course she :mecry: , but i think she gets why. Wednesday she didn't bite, so all the way home in the car i would say "did katie bite today? NO!! and we both would holler YEAH!! and clap our hands." She got a brownie after dinner from dad when he asked her if she bit anyone and she said no. no biting yesterday either, but we didn't make such a big deal out of it, just told her we were proud of her and gave her big hugs. we'll see how today goes. Thanks in advance for the advice. :)

I think (as Steve pointed out in the earlier iteration of this thread) consistency is key. My son went through a brief biting stage, and when he did it I used my best angry daddy voice and told him "James, no biting ever! 5 minutes on your bottom.", which was indeed followed by him sitting on his butt with no toys, no juice, no fun, for 5 minutes. This tactic was also used by his mom and babysitter, and now it's not a problem. Well, mostly.

On rare occasion he does still bite me, mostly when we're pretending to be puppies (Yeah, we. I'm a dad, it's my job). And he realises immediately upon doing it that it was the wrong thing to do. Punishment still follows, but the important thing is that I know he knows it's wrong, so I don't worry too much about it.

Unfortunately I didn't get to see any replies to my earlier try at this topic before the crash, and then it was toasted, so thanks for reposting. I like the 5 min on your bottom bit. When it is appropriate, I'll have to remember that. It will work no matter where we're at, unlike a timeout chair or something. Right now when she gets out of control, I just make her sit on my lap until she calms down, she's a bit young to handle staying in one place by herself for 5 min.

You missed my reply then. Our 28 months old son will also occasionally bite.

We noticed that it almost always happens as he get tired. Usually just before nap time or just before bed time. If he's had a long, difficult day, then he's more likely to bite that evening. Quite often we can step in and diffuse a situation before he actually bites someone. That's the key for us. Prevention is much easier than reacting after the fact.

When he does bite, we sternly tell him that there's no biting, and biting is wrong because it hurts. Then we'll try to get him out of the situation that caused him to bite, either with a very short time out, or simple distraction.

Mostly we try to comfort the victim using a lot of exaggerated sympathy for them. This hopefully lets him empathize a little more with the vicitim and realize it's painful. It also takes the attention away from him, so he isn't "rewarded" with attention for behaving a way we don't like.

All this is actually working. He isn't biting as much, and he knows it's wrong.

I also think you should talk to the daycare providers. They have certainly experienced this before, and should have helpful suggestions. Also, since you really need to deal with the behavior immediately, a lot of this falls on them anyway. It's hard for a two year old to see a connection between events (biting and your response) when they are separated by several hours of time.

Good luck. One way or another, your child will give up biting. (Unless he's named Mike Tyson.)

How old is she? Case can probably confirm this, but I think we instituted the "5 minute" policy shortly before he turned 2. Of course, he had to learn what it meant, but it's proven to be very effective.

Personally, I think there's *always* a better way than spanking to discipline a child. And definitely in Jamey's case, spanking is going to do more harm (psychological) than good. Time-out is extraordinarily effective with Jamey, because he's such an extrovert that he simply cannot stand being left out. And there's room for leeway with it. If he gets right up and does it again, I can easily give him another 5 or even 10 if I feel like he needs it. The one thing I never do is send him to bed as punishment. We worked really hard to make bedtime a positive thing with him and it would be a mistake to turn that into a punishment.

LabRat what I said was we never had this problem, but I'd suggest talking to the daycare. Whatever approach you take needs to be consistent between home & daycare. And they may have suggestions--they've probably seen it before.

The other thing I have realized with Jamey is that it works well to encourage him to talk about what he is feeling. If he is "upset", "angry" or "sad", instead of hitting or biting, perth and I both try and encourage him to tell us. (ie: "Are you upset?" "Why are you sad, Jamey?") I noticed that recently, he will react by telling me "Mommy, I am upset!" This is not to say he doesn't throw his regular 3-year-old temper tantrums, but helping him find a different way of expressing his feelings really helps. Hitting was a big problem with him for a little while, which was one reason we didn't want to spank him. We managed to break that, and sometimes he makes a little hitting motion when he's upset, but never makes contact with anyone. Different discipline styles work for different kids. For him, it is the lack of attention and fun that keeps him from misbehaving. As others have mentioned in this thread, it's consistency and promptness that really are the key. If the kid is confused about punishment, he isn't going to learn, but if he understands very clearly, why he is in trouble, he will learn more quickly. When I send Jamey to time-out (on his bottom) I usually ask him to tell me why he was in trouble before I will let him up, so he remembers not to do it again.

James, no biting ever! 5 minutes on your bottom.

Curious -- why not "5 times [spanking] on your bottom"? I've noticed a really disturbing trend, lately, in which children get away with pretty much anything they want to in public and are simply, repeatedly told, "Sweetie, don't do that. Honey, that's not nice. Pumpkin, please don't do that, it hurts people's feelings," all while the behavior continues.

The physical intervention never happens, so the child continues the misbehavior. I have no children, so I can't offer any words of advice one way or another and maybe I'm only seeing the incidents in public where it is so annoying that I wish someone would finally take a hand to the brat. But I'm curious: does the absence of physical punishment make the child's behavior better or worse? Do children really learn to correct their behavior simply by being told? I've seen cases where the parents continue to use "baby speak" or "sweet talk" when attempting to discipline their children and I cannot ever see that working as a corrective action because the child will never see the parent as an adult or authority figure.

Lowe's makes an extra-duty paint stirrer that sees a small amount of alternative use.

Little Sidhe has a bit of a spiteful streak that comes out every now and then. She generally listens when I tell her not to do something as long as I use the right tone of voice. The paint stirrer *might* get used once in a month. I've found that by using it as infrequently as I do she knows exactly why I am reaching for it and curbs her current unacceptable behavior.

2 nice things about 5 minute time-outs:

1. It can be (and has been) done in a grocery store. You can do this just about anywhere.
2. I don't get approached by some childless busybody irate because I was hitting my child.

Again, consistency is key. If I have to give him a timeout in the middle of a restaurant, I will (though he does tend to cry and fuss, so out of consideration for other patrons, I take him outside or something to keep him from bothering them). So yeah, if you're consistent with punishment, it often gets to the point where the threat of punishment is enough, as in "James, keep it up and you're getting 5 minutes.". This is sometimes enough to put him back in line, which is really convenient in public situations. If not, well, he gets the 5 minutes.

How do I know this works? Last weekend I flew with him to Tucson and back. Both trips I was approached by total strangers wanting to tell me I had a very well-behaved kid. I *really* like that. :)

Man, that's most of the process isn't it? It almost doesn't matter what I say as long as he hears it in the "vengeful god" voice.

Which do you think will work better:

1) Dear Heart, that oven is very hot and will burn you...

2) NO! Followed by #1

What I find disturbing are attitudes like "If you don't hit your kid, he's going to be a problem." Child discipline isn't as simple as either spanking or telling the kid. It's more about how you tell the kid, what happens if he continues after being told and his learning WHY the action was wrong. If you spank for everything the kid does wrong, he isn't going to learn WHY he shouldn't hit. He's just going to learn that if he hits, someone bigger is going to hit him. He won't hit anyone (unless Mom and Dad don't see it) but this is not the mindset I choose to encourage with my son. Make no mistake, there is no "baby speak" involved when Jamey is in trouble. Perth uses the vengeful god voice and I use the "Mom, is seriously upset with you right now" voice. And he listens.

When you don't spank consistently, you see problems with the kid's behavior, regardless, just like if I were to threaten time out to Jamey and never follow through, I would be setting a bad precedent. Parents that have the screaming kid through the store that don't seem to be effectively punishing the child, simply don't know what to do. Yes, my kid has misbehaved in public, but I don't sit there and continue to try and calm him down, nor do I whoop him with my hand. I take him aside and get really serious and tell him he had better stop or we are leaving and he won't get to watch Star Wars when we get home/play with his lightsaber/eat his leftover cookie/whatever, he will be sitting on his bottom. If he continues, I follow through. No matter what. I never make threats I am not willing to follow through on. I see parents do this (with spankings, time-outs, etc.) and that is where the discipline fails. Not in its form, but in it's consistency (or lack thereof). Children need some kind of structure in their lives...it makes me think of those parents who think the child can "decide" when he is ready to go to bed, etc. That's just not how it works. A 3 year old doesn't know what he needs. And when he is throwing a fit, spanking him to make him stop, purely for the benefit of the parent or nearby customers is not wise, IMHO. It teaches the child to obey authority no matter what the reasons are behind disapproval. I don't know about you guys, but I want my kid to have the ability to think for himself when he becomes an adult. Even if he does get smarter than Mom (which I am sure he will).

As for the people that are irritated with my child's misbehavior and find it in their place to judge my methods of discipline, they just have to deal. In my experience, it is usually those who don't have these experience who are quickest to make the judgement, because people who have children have either been through it or are going through it. No matter what method you use, childrearing isn't easy. But it is easy for someone to say "you oughtta whoop that kid's butt" if you have never had the experience of punishing your own child.

BTW, I am not saying that a spanking is absolutely wrong in all cases. Based on my situation and my kid, it just isn't the most effective for us, and certainly isn't worth it for either Jamey or me.

While it sounds like you're doing all the right things, I have to disagree with the statement above. I'm childless by choice--and gloriously happy about it. I don't think anyone else should have to suffer because of some kid's bad behavior, whether or not the parent has control of the situation. I've seen meals and a few weddings ruined by screaming children. I'm not saying it's the kid's or the parent's fault--afterall, kids will be kids. I just don't think you should subject other people to it unless there's absolutely no other way around it. Having kids is a choice in every sense of the word. If your choice is to have kids, great--but don't make others "deal" with your choice.

Generally, I let parents be parents and I often find it doesn't help to give a parent a suggestion on how to handle their children, especially if it's a tense social setting (Jr's pitching a fit in public for reasons unknown and parent(s) is upset and embarrassed by the event, etc...) I am childless and have no current plans on having kids but that doesn't automatically disqualify me from knowing what various punishments can do to kids. I say that because I vividly remember my parents' punishment methods, what I did in (most) cases to deserve it and what I've learned as a result. My parents were of the Spanking Club, 'Belt, Switch and Hand' chapter. Looking back, I've realized that getting spanked for something not only told me that whatever I was getting spanked for was undesirable but it also taught me that doing said undesirable thing needed to be done with more tact (no, I had no idea what tact meant at that age, but that's what it was.)

One example: I REALLY hated peas as a kid. Refusing to eat peas was not a good thing, but hiding the peas in a papertowel behind furniture (where they were usually forgotten about until they developed a personality) was Undesirable. So I was punished for and stopped doing that, but came up with a better way to dispose of unwanted peas. I got really good at hiding food in my cheeks without it showing on the outside or showing when I spoke, practicing with M&Ms, peanuts, etc. So...dinner's over, run outside to play, dispose of peas behind the shrubs. Parents never knew, I was never punished for it. And all I knew at the time was I found a way to continue defeating The Peas without getting The Stick. In this case, spanking taught me to better hide the evidence :D

If I am in public and my kid screeches at the top of his lungs, no, there is no way around it. I can't go back in time and make it not happen. Of course, since I know how to handle it, my kid doesn't do that very often. Yes, kids will be kids.

Not having kids is your choice just like having a kid was my choice. I never said that I thought kids should be free to run around ruining the lives of innocent, blissful, childless people. I stated my impatience for people who think they know how I need to discipline my child. I don't seem to have a problem with excessive misbehavior in Jamey, so the suffering of people around that have to hear a 3 year old throw a tantrum is pretty minimal.

My plan was to stay out of this, but my plans seldom work. All I have to say is that I've been on both sides of this fence - childless by choice for a long time, and now I have two.
We all have to put up with things from other people we don't approve of or like. I just stood behind a guy at the grocery store who was quite ripe. It was gross, and made me uncomfortable, but Not My Business. There are people at work whose wardrobe I think is entirely hideous, and I don't want to see navels, ass cracks, or camel toes at my place of employment. As long as they're not making me dress that way, also Not My Business. Likewise, how anyone raises their kids is Not My Business. If they're not hitting me, damaging my property or causing traffic accidents, I turn my head. I'll raise my kids and let them raise theirs. I really don't have a choice, in reality, so it's one less thing to stress over. Accepting the things I can't change, and all that.

What she said :)

Most states allow for physical discipline of swats with the hand to a fleshy part of the body (i.e., buttocks). No implements may be utilized.

This definition comes from a CYS caseworker.

No, my own personal take on the biting issue? Bite back. Not hard enough to bruise, but hard enough to make an impression.

As for the people that are irritated with my child's misbehavior and find it in their place to judge my methods of discipline, they just have to deal.

I don't judge anyone's method of discipline unless it gets highly irritating and rude. The worst place: the movie theater, which caused local DVD sales and rentals to go through the roof because it became so bad. Although that has been remedied! I'm so very happy they opened an "adult-only" theater nearby, which shows the standard, wide-release movies (read: "not porn") but only allows 21 and up in. And they serve booze and unlimited popcorn. Oh, yes, it is bliss to not have to tolerate screaming infants and bawling children. Speaking of which, why do so many adults feel the need to take their 3 month old - 5 year old to a rated "R" movie?

"You know, children are much more quiet under water."

Because they're retarded.

People are really incon-fucking-siderate these days, and I also find it irritating as hell when some hellspawn is screaming at the top of their lungs and the "parent" is doing either nothing, or mollycoddling the monster. As mentioned above, on the occasions when my son does it, the first thing I do is take him away so that he is bothering as few people as possible before disciplining him. Case does the same. I think she took issue with the statement below:

Curious -- why not "5 times [spanking] on your bottom"?

and that strikes a nerve with both of us, mostly because my drunken absentee father can't grasp the concept of alternatives to spanking and loudly voices his opinion whenever possible.

Point is, regardless of how you discipine a child, you need to be consistent with it. It's not only a waste of time to make idle threats, but damaging to the kid in the long run. If you tell your kid you're gonna put em in time out, FUCKING DO IT. At the grocery store, at a restaurant, wherever.

And yeah, a movie theatre is usually an inappropriate place for a young child. Exception: Finding Nemo (or some similar kid movie) at a matinee or early evening showing. You might as well expect that. Sometimes it happens.

I do wish they would put one of those 21 and up theatres here, it's a great solution to the problem, and all movies are better when you're getting tanked.

I second that. Even us people with unruly screaming kids like to get away from the noise once in a while and drink our troubles away. :p

It suddenly struck me that several of the folks who choose not to have children and are happy with that choice are spending an awful lot of time in the <b>parenting</b> forum. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it seems a little ironic...dontcha think??

(Don't make me start singing...you will regret it) :D

And rightly so, IMO. Nobody likes that.

The other day in Walgreens, there was this woman standing in line in front of me with her twin daughters, probably around 6 years old or so. One twin was quiet. The other was...not. The second twin was perpetually telling her mother how much she hated her and calling her mom a liar, while the mother just ignored her. I was pretty disgusted with it. When the mother turned around, she must have seen the involuntary look on my face, because she looked incredibly embarassed. I didn't know whether to pity the woman and her kid, or to just continue feeling disgusted. Disgust basically won out. This is the kind of thing that is truly out of line. I DO blame the mother for it. She allows it. As someone else in this thread said, the adult should be the one in control. It doesn't mean, however, that all children act like that, or all parents neglect to impose any form of discipline, if their kids aren't being spanked.

We have no actual experimental evidence to disrupt the notion that the advice we give about kids is perfect.

Or, you could take my dad's approach which was basically (after you'd burned your hand):

"It's better not to do that in the first place"

I wonder if he invented the hangover cure of "Don't have so much to drink in the first place"

I have to say, though, when he said no size=7 or otherwise, we pretty much crapped ourselves.

You have a point there.

And I personally could care less how anyone disciplines their children. None of my business, and not my problem. I'm just saying that it's way too often that parents let the kids scream and yell and throw tantrums in public and subject their kid's bad behavior on everyone else. NO, I didn't say that's what YOU do. I think if the kid's throwing a fit in a restaurant, you should take him outside. Your night out may be ruined, but please don't ruin mine.

Hmmm, I don't remember reading that childless people were not allowed to contribute to this particular forum. I personally read all the different forums on occasion--some interest me more than others, so I spend more time in those.

Ironic, that we should investigate and comment on, how these giant expenses for us are being raised? No. :eyebrow:

Well, the biting has in my opinion become less of a problem, at least it is not getting worse. So, I plan on continuing my current discipline's direction till it's not. My goal in starting this thread was to get info from ANYONE who has either gone thru this, or been sufficiently involved in a childs life as to have working knowledge of this problem and therefore give good advice as to what worked (or not!) for them (or someone close to them). I am digesting all the commentary so far, and I definately agree that 1) whatever i do, it must be consistantly applied as a form of dicipline, by everyone my child spends significant amounts of time with; and 2) spanking works in rare situations, and i will spank if I deem it necessary, tho so far I feel she has never needed it because she knows my "vengeful god" voice means i'm serious (because i'm not afraid to leave my cart in the store and leave if that's what is needed etc.) So far, things have never escalated to the point where spanking was my last resort. I agree that certain types of discipline only teach one to not get caught instead of not doing it in the first place, and that is what I am trying to avoid!! Please, contuniue the discussion, I value all the opinions presented, from all :)

PS What the hell is anyone doing bringing kids to a movie theater to see a movie that's not specifically designed for kids?? :mad2: I have also seen infants at stock car races...WITHOUT ear protection. :mad: Even I wear earplugs for pete's sake, nerdy or not.

I've read this thread several times and never caught this. Now the image of it has got me laughing way more than I probably should.

The advice of the childless really can be helpful. It's a totally different perspective. There has been plenty posted in this forum by the "child-free" that has been very helpful and I've often taken it to heart and availed myself of it in real life. The problem, I think, comes not from the advice itself (which really is sometimes helpful, sometimes garbage, I've actually had someone tell me that "a little bit of benadryl will put a stop to his crying") but in the attitude of the advisor. Often it's not "this is how *I* would do it" but "this is how is *should* be done". Well, without the empirical evidence that comes with years of child rearing, you're not really qualified to use the sweeping judgement implied by the attitude.

But yeah, there are a lot of people on this board who's opinion I value and trust, whether they're parents or not. By the same token, there are people on this board who seem to specialise in garbage. The hard part comes in figuring out, based on what I read, who's joking, who's serious, and who is full of shit. Actually, that's not very hard at all.

Nope. Parents to childless: just pay up and shut up. Want real fun? Run for the school board and see how fast the term "pedophile" comes up. Probably need a stopwatch, not a calendar.

Did you read the part you quoted of me that said "Not that there is anything wrong with that?" Reeelax. I was making a joke.

Too bad we all have to deal with society. There are some adults I would like to see taken outside because they ruin my good time. But somehow they are still allowed to vote, drive cars, make additional humans, participate in a jury, and work. These are all things that could and do affect me personally much more significantly than just a ruined evening.

Is it possible that the unruly adults are responsible for the fact that their children act like demons? Could be. So when a sweeping generalization about children is spun out like thoughtless spew, I take offense.

I agree...when it is advice, and not just criticism with no real constructive or knowledged backing. Well said, perth.

Sorry, but there's nothing we can do about the asshole who's had too much to drink at the bar and gets loud, or the people who cut you off in traffic. It's pretty easy for a parent to scoop up a crying child and take him or her out for some air out of common courtesy for other paying customers. I guess common courtesy isn't so common anymore.

You said you kid rarely misbehaves, it's therefore interesting that you've had so many people comment on how you should discipline him, and also interesting that you're so defensive about the whole issue. Oooops, that's just more of my thoughtless spew...sorry.

Garnet, are you retarded on purpose, or is it a complete accident?

At no point did she say anything remotely similar to that. Let me check to be sure... Yup, turns out she said the exact opposite...

Now, I'm perfectly happy letting you two go at it, but that kid is my kid too, and I don't take FUCKING KINDLY to veiled insults against him.

Edit: bolded the part Garnet is extraordinarily fucking likely to miss.

Awww, such hostility. Ooooh, and the big bad F word too. Do you use that kind of language around your kid too? I knew you guys were getting defensive for a reason....

Yup, that's me, hostile and defensive. You just go ahead and ignore what a person says in favour of twisting it to fit into whatever nasty agenda you may have. Hope that works out for you.

Nasty agenda? Wow, I'm creating a conspiracy against you now, too? COOL! :)

Oh, God. If only. That would be a fucking riot, wouldn't it?

Apparently there is nothing we can do about ranting morons, either.

Yep, more thoughtless spew. It's what I have come to expect from you based on your posts here and in other forums. Rarely do we actually see thought behind your posts. It's beyond defensiveness...it's just that I don't respond well to emptyheaded ranting.

And asking perth about his vocabulary around his kid is the kind of thing that IS none of your business. I thought you had acknowledged that in an earlier post. Have you forgotten?

Yeah, name calling from both you and perth. That's real mature. And you know, honey, you and perth were the ones doing the ranting here. My comments just seemed to hit a little too close to home, and you both flipped out.

Ahhh, more name calling--very constructive. And how many of my posts have you read, sweetie? Oh sure, let's go back and bitch about how I defended PETA when I first joined this forum. Funny, I haven't seen a post from anyone about PETA since then. I've never even seen you on this forum before, and if I did your posts were so banal that I can't remember who you are or what you said.

Actually, I find both his language and both of your tempers quite telling. Just a guess, but I'm thinking the fact that you both resorted to name calling and foul language over a post from a stranger on some internet forum shows that you've both got anger issues. If ya show it here, I'm betting it's not too far from the surface at home either. I feel sorry for your kid--and I bet there's good reason why he's biting eveyone in sight. [waiting for perth to defend case now...]

Well, Duh. You insulted a 3-year-old. A 3-year-old you've never met. Good for you, you must feel real tough.

Are you still carrying that cross?

Again with the insults aimed at a 3-year-old, one you've never met. Am I behaving maturely? Maybe, maybe not. But at least I know the difference.

Perhaps the reason you haven't seen other PETA threads since you finally shut up about it is that no one else gives a shit. No, on second thought, I'm certain that's the reason.

Why don't you find someplace else to post where your interests more closely match the other posters? It seems that nearly every thread you voice your shrill opinion in turns into a trainwreck. Much of the time it seems obvious you're just trolling. Are you so starved for attention that any kind of attention is better than none at all?

I have to wonder - if you were seated on the patio of a restaurant, would a barking dog nearby cause you as much distress as a crying child? Or crows cawing? And who should take care of that to ensure your digestion isn't affected?

Don't like kids, don't want to be around the racket? Don't get pregnant and don't work at a daycare. Any incidental contact you have with children beyond that, regardless of their behavior, is something you can't control. Either live with it or stay home.

No, my supposed "insults" were aimed at the 3-year old's parents. I thought you guys were such experts on parenting, but I guess not. In case you didn't know, kids that age respond directly to what's in their environment (i.e. anger, foul language, tension). And it sounds like there's some scary stuff going on in that poor kid's life. Not his fault, his PARENTS' fault.

OK, now I'm waiting for CASE to chime in. This is getting to be very predictable.

Hey, whatever you say.

My goodness that's a little hostile too. Calm down, Jane. It's just an internet forum, not world diplomacy. And I'll post wherever I feel like it, especially now that I know how much it irritates you all so much. :biggrin:

Stupid question, but not surprising. Would the dog barking bother me? Of course. Should the dog owner take his dog elsewhere where it does not disrupt others? Absolutely.


NO, sorry, I don't plan on letting other people's poorly behaved children ruin my social life. And from my experience, it's the ones with ill-mannered children who think it's their RIGHT to subject their kid's behavior on everyone else. Sound familiar?

Too bad your parents can't just scoop you up and take you away. When you insult someone without qualification, you get slammed. Your assumptions about mine and perth's parenting abilities are pretty far fetched, considering you have only seen a few of my posts, and that is hardly enough to justify knowing what kind of person I am. It just so happens that I rarely post. And if I am a stranger on the internet, then you have no real basis for your judgement. You, on the other hand, have this habit of running your keys on everything you think you know about and irritating the crap out of most of us. Get off your self-righteous, PETA loving high horse and learn to deal with reality. Kids are going to scream sometimes. As jane said, you can't control it.

We should all be glad you choose not to have kids. To let the idiocy continue into another generation would be a travesty.

And BTW, my kid wasn't the one that was biting. Read posts carefully before posting. I know that is hard for you to do, but just humor us all, please.

Of course you can post anywhere you like. All I'm saying is you seem to make it a point to disagree with everyone here as often as you can. Maybe take up crocheting or something. Most of us find posting here, and the relationships we've formed with fellow posters, relaxing and fun. I can't imagine constant disagreement would be fulfilling or fun, and certainly not recreational.

You're the one who's being insulting now. I didn't ask a stupid question, and I'm sorry that you narrowly viewed it that way. I just wondered if every noise would be as offensive to you as a child.

If you're not allowing "poorly behaved children" to ruin your social life, what's your beef? And yes, if they bother you, and you're to avoid being bothered, staying home is your only option. On the other hand, if they don't bother you, you're yapping about something that doesn't affect you.

Though we're talking about someone else's kids, it sounds to me like this child is certainly not being exposed to anything "scary". Oh no! Family members have said bad words! Ooooh! Call Social Services, because certainly children cannot be exposed to naughty language, or their little ears will fall off and they'll become sociopaths. Tension! Egads, call a psychiatrist. Anger!! On my! Normal people never get angry. :rolleyes:

Wait case, aren't you and perth the parents of the same child? Call me on it if I got it wrong, but apparently the child's father knows about his biting and you don't? Hmmmmm... Very interesting.

Hey, I may be an "idiot," but at least if I was a parent I would be paying enough attention to my child to know that he was BITING other people.

Now now...not all of Garnet's posts are contrary. There's some where the posts have been downright congenial and agreeable.
It's possible that some people find a barking dog less annoying than a child. On a personal note, I simply abhor the sound of a crying baby or small child. It grates on my nerves. I'd rather have a barking dog near me than a screaming baby. If a child decides to throw a tantrum near me, there's little I can do about it. But that doesn't put me under any obligation to like or tolerate it. Sure, it's not my kid and it's none of my business how the parent disciplines. All I want is for the kid to stop crying and screaming. Soothe the kid, give him caramel to stick his teeth together, stuff his mouth with cotton...just get him quiet.
Staying home is hardly the only option. There's plenty of places people go where they just don't bring screaming babies. The trick is to find and frequent those places. And in other places, there's a noise policy and you can have the offending child and parent removed. Granted, some places are just more likely to have Kid Issues and there's little one can do about it.
I had a pretty clean and normal upbringing, so of course I grew up to be a little angel! :stickpoke ...oh, I mean...:angel:

Awww, now. I have to respectfully disagree, CW. I didn't say ALL her posts were contrary and assholish. What I said was she seems to disagree as often as she can. Think of it in terms of "all you can eat" vs. "all it is possible to eat". Everyone has to give it a rest occasionally. :D

And I agree, it's possible that some folks might find a screeching kid more annoying than a barking dog. Humans are hardwired to respond to a crying baby; that's how they get attention and thus survive. It wouldn't do much good to have a soothing, low-toned chime go off when a baby needs something. It's also possible that some people find a grown adult who's supposed to have some sense bitching about children making noise, which is what their supposed to do, extremely irritating.

It's not possible to avoid children unless you stay home - that is a fact. You're going to see brats sometimes outside when you're getting into the car, when you're in the grocery store, at the bank, at 99% of other places we all have to go. Like I said about the stinky guy, the tacky dressers, and other people I find distasteful, it's impossible to avoid. Sure, you can go to the bar and not see them while you're there, but that doesn't mean you won't have to stand in line behind them and their parents at the ATM before you get there. They're everywhere, unless you're a hermit with home food delivery who never requires medical treatment, you're going to be "exposed" to them.

I dunno...unless I have really super child-avoiding luck, it's possible. It's not very often I get into a situation where there's a screaming child and I'm out and about as much as the next person. The only times I run into kids screaming unattended or (in my opinion) poorly-attended are in open places where a lower noise level isn't encouraged...like a grocery store. In my local library on the other hand, kids are promptly taken out or asked to be removed from the building. I rarely see small children brought into banks and when they are they're quiet or they're better encouraged to hush than they'd be in a grocery store. Maybe I just have some kind of luck avoiding the Crying Child. Maybe some people have a better time of it than others.

Sure, the human animal is hardwired to respond to a crying child, but it still doesn't mean I have to like it or want to hear it. Humans are hardwired to simply have children, but it doesn't mean everyone has to like the idea. I probably should have added that I have little problem with a crying child if it's a relative of mine or the child of a friend. I'm sure if I have a child, its cries won't bother me so much either. Or, if it's a crying child because he's lost or abandoned, I can put my pet peeve aside. It's the strange children that get on my nerves.

Well, technically, if, like you say, I try to disagree as often as possible, I'm sure I could find something to disagree about in every single post on this forum. If you'd read any of my other posts before ripping my head off, you would have logically come to that conclusion as well. And BTW, people (like you) tend to complain about traits in others that they see in themselves that really bother them. I've noticed your posts often tend to be hostile, biting and just plain rude in some cases, but do I choose to single you out and whine about it? No, I just ignore your silly posts. Like I will do in the future.

Uhhh, wrong again. In fact, I had a lovely dinner out with my boyfriend on Saturday night. We went to a nice restaurant, and there was not a child in the place. Would I have minded if there was? No, not if they were behaving themselves. We are leaving for vacation on Saturday to the Caribbean, at an adults-only resort. Will there be children there? Of course not. So I'll go about my life, and you can go about yours, changing poopy diapers and listening to the screeching of children, the sound you seem to love so much. I'll have a nice frosty tropical drink on the beach for you. Maybe two.

Agreed, and well said, CW.

take your own advice, and read and understand whose posting what before you pipe up there, lassie. :eyebrow: MY kid's the one's who's biting, and frankly, case and perth sound like EXCELLENT parents to me, from the limited amount i've been exposed to them here in the last couple years. <-- not a typo. it's a good thing you aren't having kids yet, because it seems to me you need to develop your sense of patience, understanding, and ability to see things from other peoples points of view a whole lot more yet before you procreate.

Actually, it's YOU that needs to go back and read the posts. Perth also mentioned in this thread that his son bites, too. If you would like me to post a link to that, I'd be happy to do so. Please be more careful before you start slingin' the mud, OK, honey?

Don't worry, I won't be doing any procreating--I'll leave that up to the "experts" like you. Funny, it's the parents who posted here that immediately flipped out and started swearing and name-calling. To me, that spells a lack of patience and and anger issues. Are the kids wearing you guys a little thin, maybe? Maybe that's something to think about.

How is it going Labrat? Have you found things getting better? Tried anything different?