Woman killed for her unborn baby
 

I was driving to work this morning and heard on the radio a woman was killed in the U.S and her unborn baby was removed from her womb?

Apparently the lady who stole the baby then parades the infant as her own!

its like a horror movie. That poor family, i wonder if they will get their baby back. Imagine when the baby is an adult, or adolescent, and finding out what happened to her mother. I just can't even begin to comprehend the weird sorrow that wil ensue from this sick news.

Even more bizarre is how often this happens. :(

Funny how Skidmore gets back in the news.

huh? :question:

Yes, the father did get the baby back--they caught the lady just a day or two after the murder/kidnapping.

The lady who committed the crime is nuts. Apparently she had a miscarriage awhile back, and couldn't deal with that. When she killed the woman and cut the fetus out, she called her husband at work and said something to the effect of, "Guess what, honey? I was out shopping, and all of a sudden I went into labor and had a baby after all!"

This is the biggest news story around these parts right now. Godawful psychotic murdering bitch hooks up with pregnant woman via an Internet dog breeder's ad, goes to her home on the pretense of purchasing a puppy, comes up behind mother and strangles her, then cuts the 8 month old fetus from dead mother's womb and returns to her home town, claiming the baby as her own. She even told her husband that she had the baby unexpectedly the day before while she was alone in Topeka.

Some people become so horribly broken, that there is no way they can ever be fixed. I think this one falls into that category.

Really?
This is the first i've ever heard of anything like this. I heard that officials are even considering the death penalty!! how could they NOT give her the death penalty?

I think, just maybe, that she's insane, and can't tell right from wrong. She should be institutionalized, not put to death.

I think, just maybe, that she's insane, and can't tell right from wrong. She should be institutionalized, not put to death.

I doubt that defense will fly in court--she took too many steps to conceal what she did for her to claim she didn't know it was wrong.

I doubt it will fly in court either. But that's more a comment of the politics of the times than a comment on her mental condition.

how does being out of one's gourd make this any less heinous? insane or not, she should be put to death. the insanity defense to avoid the death penalty is such BS. if a conviction for a crime would result in the death penalty for someone who didn't use the insanity defense, why should a nutjob get off any easier? the crime is the same, why shouldn't the penalty be the same?

Because the crime is not the same.

Do you blame a person for having cancer? Do you blame a person for having heart disease? Why do you blame a person for another illness, when a symptom of that illness happens to be against the law?

It's against the law to take a dump on the sidewalk, but if you have dysentary and involuntarily crap your pants, resulting in some shit dribbling down your pant leg and onto the sidewalk, I would submit that you are far less guilty of shitting on the sidewalk than someone who does it on purpose. Even though you both did it. Rather than going to jail, I think such a person should get medical attention.

Yes, the violently insane are a danger to society. Lock them up in a mental hospital. Treat them. If they recover fully, let them out. What good does putting them to death do?

I don't know the details of this killing, so I can't really comment on her, but I think that most people would agree that cutting a pregnant woman open and stealing her child is not an example of a sane human being.

One news anchor said the woman's fetus was cut out of her stomach.

Good going; this way, any young children who don't know where babies really come from won't be traumatized by the story.

yeah..this is one of the most fucked up things to come out of the midwest in a while.. makes me really leary of small towns... yeesh

[radar]It wasn't an "unborn baby" until the umbilical cord was cut. It was a parasite.[/radar]

What do you mean 'how often it happens'? I have NEVER heard of this happening before.

I also don't think we should blame someone for being mentally ill however I think the problem lies where every person that want to avoid the death penalty uses this strategy. It is also not a black and white issue (mental illness). One Dr. may say you are mentally ill while the other may say you are not. With a physical illness such as dysentary it is black and white both Dr.s will agree and treat the same way.

This crime is sickening. Unthinkable. Horrific. Who would think to do such a thing? :eek:

they murdered someone. i'm not really supportive of the idea to let them out once they aren't as nuts as they once were. we're not talking about someone who crapped on the sidewalk, but someone who cut a fetus from her mother because she was destraught over losing her own. *buzz* thanks for playing but you are free to leave the earth now.

is she mentally ill. probably. i think she'd damn near have to be to pull this one off. but that is irrelevant. someone lost a wife and a mother, because she wasn't feeling right in the head - fry her.

can you really imagine putting her into a treatment program and in 3 or 4 years she wakes up and says "wow, i feel a lot better now. i don't think i'll cut any more babies out. can i go home now?"

I have to say I agree with Lookout on this. Whether this illness is treatable or not, the rule (law) of society is: you don't kill people unless it's self defense (and even then it's questionable).

If she isn't mentally healthy enough to understand that, take her out of society permanently. And don't get into the mentality of children with me, this was an adult woman with the power to kill another adult, not a 5 year old.

And here is the accused...

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...ain_wxs102.jpg

Me either. :(

I don't see any horns growing out of her head or anything. Looks sane enough to me...fry her!

Personally I don't thing the insanity defense should be used like diplomatic immunity. And just because this crime sounds particularly heinous does not automatically make the woman insane. Have any of the news reports said she has a history of mental illness yet? I'm with Lookout on this one too, she should be removed from society...permanently.

And here's the victim...

My spider sense says ... drunk.

And probably personality disordered (which is a psychiatric way of saying "royally fucked up, but not crazy-crazy").

There will be a host of people making claims one direction or another about her.

The only ones that will ultimately be important will be those of the (inevitable) defense psychiatrist, and the prosecution psychiatrist.

There are a couple of docs who just go around the country doing competency evals, and offering expert testimony. Some of them are known as being "The best psychiatric testimony that money can buy."

A lot of these forensic shrinks do do a good, ethical job ... they write accurate reports.

A lot of what we currently know shows willful action, preplanning, significant attempts to cover up evidence of the crime ... most of the elements that go into a death penalty eligible case.

I wonder if courttv will carry this one?

I remember when I first read about this story it mentioned how many crimes of this nature occur (several hundred IIRC), and that many more go unreported. I didn't write the number down, but I have found a statistic of 1,000 pregnant women murdered in the past decade, but not all for the purpose of stealing their unborn child (source: Washington Post).

As for this woman...her plan was obviously pre-meditated. From scoping out websites and finding a picture of the victim pregnant, then writing the victim under an assumed name pretending to be interested in buying a puppy, arranging a meeting to go out to look at one, etc. This was no 'heat of the moment' crime...she thought this one out step by step. That is so cold blooded and heartless.

And then to come back and to say that 'ooops, I guess I wasn't having twins after all!' (I believe I read somewhere that there were ppl that doubted she was even pregnant to begin with--has it be positively stated that she did in fact miscarry, or is that something that she alone is saying?)

Let's not forget that being crazy won't get you off. You have to either be:

a) incompetent to stand trial, or

b) unable to tell right from wrong.

Edit: And for the record, extra crispy.

huh huh huh huh. wolf said do do. *shut up beavis!*

Just hear on the news...'her exhusband says she often faked pregnancy to get attention'......COOKOO :eek:

Christ, and if she did ever manage to have a kid of her own, I bet she'd have a raging case of Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy. :yeldead:

No. I just think she'd kill her kid outright when it didn't love her enough.

Munchausen's by Proxy takes far to much planning.

Trust me, I don't think many ppl noticed that faux pas. They were probably too horrified by the actual story to even care.

Here in Sc we have a gentleman who has a bill he has been pushing to make law for some time. I am behind him. You see his brother worked at the power plant. One of his coworkers had been out sick. (under observation). he walked into the locker room that day. and started changing for work. When the gentlemens brother asked him how he was. he reponded fine. When the brother turned to change the other man shot him in the head.

The man is in the state hospital and they try to release him every year. His own mother wants him to stay locked up because she says shw knows he is still dangerous. Yet the state says that since the docs say he's sane enough and he is over 18 they should release him. Ofcourse the state also won't prococute the murder since he wasn't in his right mind.

The bill would create a new law. One that says you can only plead GUILTY by reason of insanity. The mandatory sentence would include a hospital stay and once "sane" a term of jail keeping with the crime. Mind you this is only for viiolent offenders.

SPeaking of which. I am of the opinion that none violent crime is best handled with fines and community service. Or better yet work out servittude to the county state what have you based on crimes. Get some real work outta these bozos. I personally believe crimes against ones self, drinking, drugs and such should not be crimes at all. not UNLESS you cause pain or
loss to someone else. If all you hurt is you, that is your own problem.

As for the case at hand. Mental illness can be horrible. I often feel sorry for these people. Hell I use to hear voices. I got a little help and learned to deal with it. Now days they only call on holidays but seriously, this woman KILLED. Not a sudden moment of rage or an accident in traffic. She thought it out. SHe may well be sick. She may well think the cat is from Venus. Had she just kidnapped a new born, I would say lock her up and treat her. But she took the life of another. SHe meant to do it too. SIck or not, cull the herd. We put a dog down when it breaks the social contract and kills a person. Often even another dog. THe dog quite probably does not see what he has done as wrong. We still kill him to protect us. Should humans be any different. Frankly most days I would rather have the dog treated and get rid of the people. That last line was pure spite but it suits.

It is NOT payback. It is NOT vengence. Hell, it aint even justice. It is simply the END.

Why would anyone make that plea? The choice seems to be between asylum+jail and just jail. It sounds like a recipe for putting even more schizophrenics into the general prison population.

and the problem with that is??? these are folks who broke the rules. you rolls the dice you takes yer chances. i'm not real concerned about a convicted violent criminals mental state. they shouldn't be able to walk the street because they were having problems at the time of their crime.

I should think even if they pleaded not guilty the courts would have an evaluation done and send them to the mental hospital if they're convicted.
No, but the other prisoners shouldn't have to deal with them. :eyebrow:

Neither should the guards.

though I do agree with HAppy Monkey wwhy the hell should prison be pleasent?? I would like to see a return to the old twenties styles where you came out dead or convinced not to go back. I have very VERY little concern for the live or happiness of convicted violent felones.

As for the plea. Think about the cases on the news or in the papers or on the net where some ass lost his temper or got drunk or was just an ass but now is gonna plead insane to get either a reduced sentence or get off. Make them plead guilty. They wont be so quick to use the defense. After looking back at the post and checking with some old note on it the prison time after the hospital is usualy minimum security for the term. BUt if you srcew up or relapse as it were it goes back to hard time. As for why anyone would plead it. See above comment. It isnt about getting to plead it. It is about stopping them from geting a easier time because the claim they were nuts.

Hear hear! But then that's why baby sitting the dregs of society is such a high paying, rewarding job. :eyebrow:

There are crazy people who do things because they are crazy ... acting out of their craziness.

For example ... crazy guy sincerely believes that his parents and sibling have been replaced by identical duplicates but are now demons.

Kills parents, wounds brother, who manages to escape to call police. Crazy guy is apprended.

This is a classic Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity.

The guy killed as a direct consequence of his craziness. He did not (probably still does not) understand that he killed his parents. He saved them from the demons. He suffered from a defect of reason so as not to be able to tell right from wrong ... (that's called the M'Naughton Rule) and is the test for insanity in many jurisdictions.

Some jurisdictions also have a notion of Guilty but Mentally Ill. This is often a plea agreement ... the individual pleads guilty, gets mental health treatment, but still serves the term of his sentence. If he's still nuts at the end of it, as far as I am aware the mental health treatment can continue. If the mental illness clears, the jail term stands. I suppose a jury could find for that as well.

NGRIs, since the patient is presumably curable can get released before the criminal penalties would have ended.

Here's another classic Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity. Despite the article being from the Carolinas, the crime happened up near Pottstown. Richard Greist.

He's been petitioning for expansion of privileges, not unlike John Hinkley, Jr.

The only issue I have with this is the extremely high, and you'll agree with me on this I think, lack of medical compliance.

How many retreads do you see every year because the get off of their meds?

We have our frequent flyers ...

But it's also true that violence occurs in the mentally ill at a lower rate than the general population.

The cliche of the violent crazy person is well know, and well reinforced through movies and tv shows.

Consider ... a mentally ill man threatens to kill his mother with a sledgehammer.

Did the voices tell him to do it?

No. His mom told him his cell phone service was going to be cut off because he doesn't have the money to pay for it.

Crazy people do things for ordinary criminal motivations too, not as a consequence of their mental illness.

I know, I'm just worried about the retreads and the ones known to be violent.

Some of the ones on our locked, male ward were more entertaining than TV, and definitely not violent.

Last night I dealt with one of our frequent flyers. It was cold and wet. We don't often see him in the summer months ...

I had a very pleasant, but rambling conversation with him regarding his having spent Christmas with his family, his belief that he had fathered a child on another mental health consumer who was married to someone else at the time, something about Ted Kennedy that I really didn't get, and whether the Book of Mormon represented divine truth or if he though Joseph Smith was hearing voices and seeing things.

He got loud and threatened to kill the doctor who evaluated him (She's not a doc he knows, so he got away with it, and was admitted). He wouldn't hurt a fly. He knows what he has to say so we get paid by the insurance company for his admission. He's really quite thoughtful.

But in studies, he'd probably get classed as "violent mentally ill" because that info is in his chart.