well! now that it has a museum I guess that makes it legit.
 

whilst mindlessly surfing along the 'ol information super highway.. I stumbed across this. now, I'm not a believer in the whole corporate religion thing and I find the debate between evolution and creationism to be a waste of time (although an entertaining one.. and great to start bar fights!) this site.. well... takes a stab at trying to explain the creationism idea (for fun and profit!). take a moment, poke around and tell me what you think about it. I'm still going thru the FAQ's (and living in Kansas.. things like this really scare me)

you forgot to post the link, i think.

heh.. yeah that might help huh? sorry long night last night...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

I'll guarantee you one thing.
Whatever I chose to believe is the truth, will satisfy me.
But it won't change anything...not a damn thing. :rollhappy

no sir, the thing I find.. oh.. odd perhaps, is that does opening a museum to something lend it more 'validity' points? I think It does, and as I freaquent the natural history museum here (WOO! we have custers horse!) there are some larger questions that I have. (and the thing is.. I don't care what a person believes, hey, good for you pal! (not you bruce) it makes for thought provoking conversation (sometimes) and I enjoy that.

and therein lies another problem.. the fact that it doesn't matter.. it does, No! what I believe won't change anyones belief system (although I have done that in the past, it was an accident). I have to have some sort of faith in things.. otherwise.. well.. where's my 10 gauge?

Just ask OC, that's her favorite answer pool.

Ask what?

About answers in genesis.

I know that, I meant ask what about them?

In addition, the fact that they are building a museum that supports that creationist viewpoint doesn't make it "legit". The theory is legit and stands on its own or fails on its merits.

AiG is building the museum for the same reason all other museums were built. Why does the fact that it's built by creationists make it some big story?

Museum, my ass. Its a theme park church. Kentucky is a good place for it.
And it is not built for the same reasons other museums were built. Its built to prostelitize one religious view. Its built for the same reasons other churches were built. Its just a different form of passion play.

Museums are, traditionally in America, places that welcome intellectual discourse as core mission. They are forums for discussion and research. And the content can and should change.

Museums are warehouses of stuff that no one knows what else to do with. Groups of schoolkids visit them to give the bus driver something to do in the middle of the day.
The reason that the content changes is because the old shit got boring.

Some of them have buttons that you can push. That's neat.

How dare someone co-opt this noble, ancient tradition for their own PROSELYTIZING.


kidding. sheesh.

Huh? I thought the were primarily to teach we unwashed all the neat stuff you guys on the in, know....or at least wish to share.
Secondarily as a place to keep stuff the literates might to want to write about. It would be a royal pain to have some grad student, with a paper due in the morning, waking me up to check some DoDad. I put it in the museum...go away. :hafucking

Geez, I guess I had some good fieldtrips! I like those other bastions of literacy, libraries, too. And I can't even spell! ;)

You're saying that Christians don't have intellectual discourse? That they don't discuss or research anything? That exhibits can't be changed periodically simply because it's a Christian museum?

That's insulting.

Sorry to insult you, that was not my intent. I'm saying that an exhibition of "How Noah fed the animals" and "playing with the T-Rex" as displayed in their PR slide show are there to tell one story only. This biblical interpretation is their end. I welcome real, thoughtful discourse, Christian or otherwise. I'm suspect of fundamentalist script, particularly with plastic dinosaurs. If anyone is being insulting and I would add, threatening, to Christianity, its these fundamentalist indoctrinators .

Here's another thing that sticks in my craw....

OC, your sig line implies that the only way one can behave morally, righteously, peacefully, happily, healthily, productively is to believe in "a god". Like the only thing stopping me from chopping up my neighbor is a belief in "a god", and the only reason I would behave respectfully, peacefully is the selfish fear for my own salvation by "a god".
I find that very insulting.

OC can fight her own battles, but I have a hard time keeping my typing fingers shut.

warch, come on. You don't really think that's what that sig is saying, do you?

It all depends on how you interpret "live my life as if there were no God." It could mean anything from "be selfish and evil" to "not get baptised".

And of course, since evolutionary origins and millions of years has been proven without a doubt, it's ok to indoctrinalize people in that.

Unfortunetly, that has yet to be proven without a doubt. So then it's ok to indoctrinalize people with something that hasn't been proven?

Isn't that what you're saying AiG is doing?

I'm sorry you inferred any implication or offense to my sig, Warch.

If that's the way you think of it, I'm sorry. That's not anywhere near what I mean by my sig and I think you know that without me having to tell you.

At least it has some credible evidence.

It's no indoctrination if you call it a theory.

The Bible—the ‘history book of the universe’—provides a reliable, eye-witness account of the beginning of all things, and can be trusted to tell the truth in all areas it touches on. Therefore, we are able to use it to help us make sense of this present world. When properly understood, the ‘evidence’ confirms the biblical account.

Um, yeah...

Wouldn't it be cool if, as a student, you could have anything removed from the curriculum if it hadn't been proven beyond a doubt? The teacher would say "I think, therefore I am." and you could go home.

So what's the fear here? That we're going to shut down all the laboratories and research projects in the world and replace them with, "Because God said so?"

It's just a bible-based museum presenting another side of the story. As with Wall Drug, the world's largest ball of twine, or the Clinton Library (snicker), you can just drive by. But no. Because it's got something to do with God, it warrants that very special combination of intellectual self-righteousness and venom that seems to seep into the conversation any time faith is mentioned.

I guess it just really seems that stupid to you. But to me it looks like the least tolerant, most aggro people in the world are the very bunch that accuse Christians of the same thing. Eh. At least we all agree on gun control, right? ::haha::

Wouldn't it be cool, if, as educators, we left origins theories out of school altogether and just leave the real science in?

I heap equal amounts of abuse on people regardless of their ideological baggage. It's just that some people make it that much easier.

A bible museum is not a scientific facility, it is a comparative religion facility.

Poor Christians, the perpetual victims. Why, oh why, won't people just let them be Christians in peace? How could they possibly be expected to properly worship God without government participation?

The Creationism Museum, on the other hand, is fine. As you say, it's a roadside museum like any other private theme museum. I fully support their right to exist, though I consider it to be basically equivalent to a bigfoot or UFO museum - fun to visit, and a provider of interesting tchochkes, but it's too bad there are people who actually believe it. At least it's not Scientology.

Wouldn't it be cool if people could differentiate between a theory and revelatory dogma?

You have never demonstrated any understanding of what real science is, when you say evolution and creationism are equally scientific because neither are proven beyond a doubt.

So what's the fear here? That we're going to shut down all the laboratories and research projects in the world and replace them with, "Because God said so?"

Frankly, yes. That is a big fear.

Because people dont want to risk pissing off a god, just in case he or she exists to give them the afterlife smackdown.

monkey, I didn't say you should feel sorry for us. I said that kind of talk is the very thing you accuse Christians of. No one asked for yet another patronizing little slam.

Looked up museum in da dikshunary:

an institution devoted to the procurement, care, study, and display of objects of lasting interest or value; a place where objects are exhibited

Conspicuously absent from the definition:

if the museum is themed, said theme must not conflict with the almighty word of Darwin, et al.


Warch, I got the world domination newsletter from my pastor today, and he said any plans for eliminating science have been pushed out to 2010 at least, since we're overbudget on the eradication of gays. Still on track with forcing all children to pray before school lunch, but don't know where the money's gonna come from.

Still think this endeavor, which seems to lack a collection of "objects" and relies on the construction of models and experiential spaces is closer to the definition of an amusement park.

A commercially operated enterprise that offers rides, games, and other forms of entertainment.

or theme park:

An amusement park in which all the settings and attractions have a central theme, such as the world of the future.

Since I haven't actually read the story or seen the museum :haha: I'll defer to your definition.

I only accuse Christians of attempting to insert their religion into government. When they don't do that, I don't accuse them of anything. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a little verbal sparring. If that comes off to you as self righteous and venomous, that's your cross to bear.

Yeah. Youre right. Fundamentalism is nothing to be concerned about, really.

:lol: Thanks for the update mr noodle, i didn't get the latest edition of the newsletter. imagine how silly i would have felt picketing ASU's science department all by my lonesome.

I don't mean to sound defensive, I'm playing along too. If I was THAT offended I wouldn't be eagerly waiting for the next post to come up...

Likewise.

I was mainly responding, rather than to your post in particular, to the general tactic of many Christians of complaining that they are repressed, or that they are the only people it's ok to denigrate, when the "repression" or "denigration" is primarily an attempt to keep religion and government from polluting each other. Christianity, being the largest religion in the US, bears most of the brunt of that effort.

And, as I said, it really isn't applicable to this museum which, AFAIK, is not government funded in any way.

I doubt they'll draw too many people that don't already subscribe to their teachings/demos/displays. :)

should be a theme park..

personally I envy those that have blind faith.. I wish I could do that.. yes, they are both theories.. but uh.. creationism.. uh no.. there is NO scientific evidence to support it, where sure evolution has holes... they can and will be filled

For someone who lacks the ability to have blind faith, you show great potential. :D

yeah, well.... uh... good point.

I have this stupid faith in humanity I suppose, I do believe that in time we'l be able to figure anything out. and this is where religion becomes important (in theory anyway) to act as a 'moral and societal' code of ethics, the downside to that of course is people twisting these views to serve thier own purposes (which I guess is what disgusts me about humanity as well).. ah the 'ol sword of damacles

There is exactly the same evidence to support creation as there is for evolution.

What the argument ultimately boils down to is starting assertions.

Is not.

True.

One is based on an invisible man in the sky or, more accurately, the assertions of people we would medicate today.

The other is based on a growing evidentiary chain back through history based on scientific study. And it doesn't assert what is the exactly the cause, but what choices we have as to what is most likely the cause.

Is too.

Not... :p