IRS Caught Cheating!
 

How many Americans have had to endure the intrusive and frightening interrogation known as an IRS "audit"? Well it turns out that while sticking its nose in everyone else's business, the IRS has been less than honest itself. More specifically, the IRS has been caught cheating...
to the tune of about a trillion dollars a year.

The IRS is quite experienced at using intimidation, demonization, and harassment tactics, but what can be done when the "enforcers" are the ones breaking the rules? Click below to see how at least one man is standing up to the IRS.

http://www.861.info/message.html

Sincerely,

The 861 Evidence Team
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whether or not anybody agrees this is definitely somebody who is working to control the powers that control him. The very fact that the law is so complicated should make it unconstitutionally vauge. We all know the IRS wouldn't follow its own laws even Larkin is correct. (I happen to think he is.) And we also know they could just change the laws at any time. But perhaps if enough normal people (As opposed to geeks like me that hang out at political forums) see this message, it could hopefully creat enough indignation about this that maybe it could be repealed. With-out replacing it with anything. It's really not that impractical. I've read stats that say if the IRS was abolish, government would shrink to about Clinton era levels.

Anyway,

Tracy

The IRS is not scrupulously honest? Oh my gods.

Please stand back while my worldview crumbles.

I wouldn't want anyone else to get hurt.

Get real, they are already spending more than they collect. They certainly won't collect less. :lol:

IRS Caught Cheating
 

I don't think anybody here has any belief that the government EVER follows it's own laws. Or that, even if it did, it wouldn't just change them once they were found out. I think the point hrere, is that if enough people get discusted enough, we could eventually abolish this thing.

Yes, I know they spend more then they collect. But that causes other problems in the economy. (Inflation, etc.) The point here is to raise public awareness.

Obviously, with-out cutting spending, any sort of tax cut is simply a shell game -- even if it is completely abolishing the IRS. We have to pay for it somehow. But the hope here is that if enough people get shown this information -- whether they agree or not -- maybe they'll finally decide freedom is worth fighting for.

And like I said, compaired to current revenues the income tax only brings in about the difference between the end of the Clinton term and now. So I really don't see this as a difficult sell to the average person. It's very incrimental.

Anyway, thanks for your responces.

Tracy

What you are missing here Tracy is that the amendment to the constitution that allows income tax in the first place was never properly ratified and is therefore null and void.

Personally, I've never paid taxes (other than when I screwed up my refund and had to pay back the overage), and I've gotten a refund + credits every year for oh, 19 years now. So you fight yourn, I'll keep collecting mine.

See, that's what people keep forgetting.

Even if you get a refund, you're still paying taxes. Unless the amount of your refund equals the amount you've had withheld all year.

Now that April 15th has passed, get out your W-2.

Look at the amount paid in.

And subtract your refund.

Any number greater than zero is your federal income tax paid.

Add the State Tax Paid to that.

Add the Local Tax Paid to that.

And don't forget the tax paid on interest ...

And the property taxes, you can't leave them out. (if you rent, find out from your landlord what percentage of your rent is going to this).

If you're that obsessive-compulsive, you might want to check all your receipts to determine how much you've dumped into sales tax.

You might want to have a puke bucket handy when you get that final total.

We've had this conversation before. She has enough dependents that she gets an entire refund of all taxes taken throughout the year, plus she gets child credits.

It is not only possible but quite common with our tax laws to pay zero taxes and even have the government pay you just to exist.

If she's claiming all the children she's committing tax fraud because they aren't living with her.

the IRS commits fraud every day, we just can't put them in jail for it :(

Depends on the wording in the custody ruling. The non-custodial parent often is given the right to claim the tax deduction. And if you make a low enough salary, it only takes one kid anyway.

It would be easier to take him seriously without the mullet.

I'm actually aware of that. I've seen Bill Benson's research into the subject at http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/

But I think it's a bit of a red herring, since the Supreme Court said the 16th Ammendment confired no new taxing powers to Congress.

That's part of Larkin's point. The reason the actual laws don't say most people owe income tax is because laws that say they did would have been unconstitutional even with the 16th ammendment.

BTW. Larkin Rose, to my knowledge, is also a Free State Project member ( http://www.freestateproject.com ) So he's coming to New Hampshire (and of course all the FSP members hate taxes as well). There were actually 2 bills in the NH House regarding the income tax last year. I hope they get resurected.

One Established a committee to study the constitutionality of the federal income tax and constitutional abuses in the collection of the income tax and its effects on New Hampshire citizens.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...04/HB1193.html

The other would have nullified the Sixteenth amendment to the United States Constitution.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...04/HB1245.html

Nullifying the income tax -- or at least the IRS' misapplication of the laws (Which-ever you want to believe) is already in the consciousness of NH residents and law-makers. With the Free State Project, (and Larkin Rose amoung them.) I believe it's very possible that in a few years New Hampshire could become a bit of a haven from the Income Tax.

Anyway,

Tracy Saboe

No way. NH residents can't op out of federal taxes just because the state says so. :headshake

Actually if you are truley sick and tired of the IRS, the SS taken out of you pay check and a myriad of other indecendies carried on in the name of taxes, try out
fairtax.org

A lot of very sensible work goes into this.

I thought they closed the loophole that allowed you to opt out of the social security system.

Actually, I can claim the 2 boys every, plus this year I get to claim my daughter, plus as part of the ongoing custody agreement, we are trying to get one of Husband's girls as well.

But even with just the two boys, especially when I was claiming head of household, I was paying in about $3500 a year total, and getting $6000 a year back.

And don't forget, I used to live in Nevada, which has no income tax. And I didn't own property for most of that, so I paid no property tax, either.

So yes, technically, I'm paying the taxes in, but it's more like an "after christmas fund".

The problem with the FairTax and other "revenue neutral" proposals is that it doesn't move towards the direction of less taxation or more liberty. It makes it "fairer" maybe, but quite frankly their isn't a such a thing as a tax that's "fair." The fairtax, instead moves sideways. And considering what we know about government, sideways tends in actuality after all the debates, ammendments, and regs to mean towards more tyranny.

2ndly, all spending is a tax. Regardless of how the monies collected, it still needs to be paid for somehow. The only way to actually cut taxes in the long run, is to cut spending waving some majic government wand to restructure how taxes are collected isn't going to solve that problem. There's no way for the government to take 2 trillion dollars out of the ecconomy with-out causing serious disruptions.

I don't think we should settle for replacing the current tax scheme with another one. If all those people who spend all their energy towards restructuring actually spent their energy trying to repeal it, repealing it would be possible. Especially since, as I said, repealing the income tax would only decrease government revenues down to about Clinton era currently. It seems to me that it's practical and even pragmatic to advocate the abolishion of the income tax.

Oynx, sounds to me like you're on a form of welfare dole. The difference between the $3500 that you would have paid in, and the $6000 in child tax credits ($2500) is other peoples money. Money the government took from other people to give to you. I understand, you've got to live in the system though.

Tracy

The only "welfare" I'm on is Reduced lunches for my kids at school. Instead of paying $1.75 for lunch per day, they pay $.40.




edited.

Ah, contemplate the utopia we could live in if everything the government spends money on was instead handled by unregulated corporations!

those with skills, training, drive, and a fat load of luck would be very happy.


those missing one of those would be grumbling hard.

those missing two would be just plain effed.

Bush's tax commission (reg required) has come up with a plan to simplify the tax code.

Hey, that may have some merit. It's common knowledge that many wealthy people and corporations can use odd tax loopholes and deductions to pay no taxes, right?
This, combined with an estate tax repeal, will certainly make taxes simpler - if you're poor or middle class, pay up!

From the Fairtax site; OK, here's my objection. If the spending up to the poverty level is free that means you have to file to get a refund for the tax you paid up to the poverty level. That means we get rid of the complicated tax code and keep the bureaucracy. We change the name but it's still the IRS drones. :mad:
I say lower the rate and no exceptions or exempt food. Does that mean all the programs that pay people like OC, go away or does that bureaucracy stay?