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-   -   The Vital Difference (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14224)

Ibby 05-20-2007 08:51 AM
The Vital Difference
 
I've been thinking about this that I said in the Falwell thread quite a bit the past few days, and I think its the closest I've come to adequately explaining why I believe the Republicans, and associated right-wingers (rather than simply being asshole hypocrites) are the biggest threat to American freedom since we were part of the British Empire. Since I have not gotten either of our resident right-wing crazies to respond to it yet...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 343815)
The difference between a crazy weird right-winger and a crazy weird left-winger is that the left-winger doesnt advocate locking up all the fags, the niggers, the dykes, the heathens. They dont want to destroy all those who dont fit their closedminded backwards draconian morality; they want to help people, and convince them to leave that draconian ridiculousness.

A right-winger would ban gay sex. A left-winger wouldn't make it mandatory.
A right-winger would ban drugs. A left-winger wouldn't make it mandatory.

That is the difference; that is why right-wingers, all of them, are supporters of totalitarianism, authoritarianism, fascism - and why they are so repulsive to me.

fargon 05-20-2007 09:38 AM
Ibram, I am a Right Wing Crazy. And I believe that if you want to be Gay, if that's what makes you happy then do it. Just don't do in my face.
Concerning drugs, legalize God's weed. Cocaine, heroine, and others in that category, death by punga.
Please Ibram, keep your liberal laws and taxes off my a$$.
Remember, We are all God's creations and are supposed to Love each other.
Thank You for allowing my rant. Love Terry

Ibby 05-20-2007 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fargon (Post 344822)
Ibram, I am a Right Wing Crazy. And I believe that if you want to be Gay, if that's what makes you happy then do it. Just don't do in my face.
Concerning drugs, legalize God's weed. Cocaine, heroine, and others in that category, death by punga.
Please Ibram, keep your liberal laws and taxes off my a$$.
Remember, We are all God's creations and are supposed to Love each other.
Thank You for allowing my rant. Love Terry
1.) As long as you have the right to be straight any way you want to be and anywhere you want to be, I have the same right to be queer.

2.) That is exactly what I mean by authoritarianism and fascism. Banning things, making things that hurt nobody else illegal.

3.)The thing is... a liberal law is a lack of a law. A liberal law is saying you CAN do something if you want to, but not that you HAVE to or CAN'T.

Now, before any of you right-wingers start bitching about gun control - I'm pro gun rights. That's the one weak point of the Democrats, compared to the Republicans. But it's the only, ONLY point on which the right isn't far-and-away more authoritarian than the left.

Griff 05-20-2007 12:58 PM
Here's the thing Ibby, when I was a kid the left was where the real threat of totalitarianism resided. Inside the States, people were hamstrung by regulation and outside the States the Russians were working their mojo. Things were a little different in South America where all flavors of totalitarian were at each other's throats. You are correct that today the American Right is nurturing fascism. This may largely be a result of the old red scare times, when they jettisoned conservatism. I'd say that for now hold the right's feet to the fire, but keep an eye on the left, nobody did totalitarianism like Pol Pot and Uncle Joe Stalin.

Ibby 05-20-2007 01:17 PM
I agree that the left, the Communist left, has been terrible about it - but in the US, right now, it's the right that's the problem by a long shot.

Communism is dead, outside North Korea. Fascism is far from it.
I wouldn't mind the right nearly so much if there was more of the libertarian right, and less of the authoritarian right (who usually masquerade as the former, like UG does). As far as I'm concerned, right-left is not NEARLY as important as lib-auth.

xoxoxoBruce 05-20-2007 01:56 PM
The conservatives want to return to the good old days, pre WW II and the Red Menace. The problem with that is described in this rant, I got in an email...
Quote:
They Were ALL Fascists. At a military level, let's face a nasty fact: WW II was Stalin vs. Hitler. The rest was window dressing. Stalin won because--because what, he was a nicer guy? Nope, he won because his brand of fascism was actually way more ruthless and bloody and effective than Hitler's smalltime snobbery, and because Stalin had the whole US industrial machine backing him. There's no moral lesson in that that I can see.
Of course, most of these WW II fans try real hard not to think about Stalin, so they prefer to think about Britain and the rest of Western Europe. Those are officially the good guys. Well, got some bad news for you: they were all fascists too, just weaker than Stalin and Hitler, more sly and suckup-y. The only lesson they've got to offer is that if you want to survive, start out as a raving fascist and when that becomes uncool, turn coward and start pretending you were always in favor of niceness.
Europe before Stalingrad was an alien planet, as crazy and bloodthirsty as any Aztec priest. Nobody realizes the complete flip-flop Europe did in 1945. Before that, it was a continent full of insane fascists. Some were braver, better soldiers, or smarter; those are the only real differences.
You say fascist like it's a bad thing. Maybe it is but it was once the norm.

Spexxvet 05-20-2007 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 344825)
1.) ... But it's the only, ONLY point on which the right isn't far-and-away more authoritarian than the left.
What about the mandatory abortions the liberals want to impose? :rolleyes:

Bullitt 05-20-2007 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 344825)
2.) That is exactly what I mean by authoritarianism and fascism. Banning things, making things that hurt nobody else illegal.
You're kidding me right? I guess I forgot that the drug trade is a completely benevolent one. It would be nice to think that everyone who uses drugs are just fun loving hippies sitting in a campfire circle, everything is hunky dory. That's a fairytale.

xoxoxoBruce 05-20-2007 07:38 PM
You're right about drugs ruining some peoples lives, Bullitt. But that's not the biggest burden drugs put on society. It's the crime that stems from trying to pay for those drugs after they have been driven underground and the prices climb. And the gang wars to control those profits.
We clearly need a different approach, this one hasn't done dick, for us.

Griff 05-20-2007 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 344832)
As far as I'm concerned, right-left is not NEARLY as important as lib-auth.
Yep, that is much more useful.

TheMercenary 05-20-2007 08:33 PM
Tell ya what IB. When you become of voting age, which you are not yet, stand up and tell the world that as a gay guy you have these views and see how many people listen to you. Not saying that what you say is not valid, only that the general population at large will pass you off as another poofta... you will be marginalized along with the rest of the liberal left.

lumberjim 05-20-2007 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 344825)

3.)The thing is... a liberal law is a lack of a law. A liberal law is saying you CAN do something if you want to, but not that you HAVE to or CAN'T.

i think you're all fucked up with this perception.

Aliantha 05-20-2007 08:40 PM
What would be the point of legislating at all if it's up to the people to do what they want if they want to?

Bullitt 05-20-2007 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 344925)
You're right about drugs ruining some peoples lives, Bullitt. But that's not the biggest burden drugs put on society. It's the crime that stems from trying to pay for those drugs after they have been driven underground and the prices climb. And the gang wars to control those profits.
We clearly need a different approach, this one hasn't done dick, for us.
Exactly. We are getting nowhere with our current strategy against hardcore drugs, or the casual users for that matter. It's just the prohibition era all over again in some respects.

TheMercenary 05-20-2007 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt (Post 344967)
Exactly. We are getting nowhere with our current strategy against hardcore drugs, or the casual users for that matter. It's just the prohibition era all over again in some respects.
No doubt. So let's just legalize it and regulate it. And tax the hell out of it!


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