The Cellar - View Single Post - Evolutionary Science-v- Creationism

Kitsune · 12-13-2004, 11:17 AM

The rest is pure speculation. And speculation isn't science.

Just because an atomic device had not been detonated in 1939 did not make the theories and hard work any less "science" than the research in the field was after 1945. Relativity was not properly tested until just several years ago with the LAGEOS 1 and 2 satellites, but that does not mean the theory should not have been included in texts before 2002. We'll probably never be able to create or touch a black hole, but that doesn't mean we cannot have the math behind it that can describe them to the best of our abilities. You seem to fully expect that something can not be considered "science" until it is duplicated in a laboratory and that is simply not how the field works. Many fields in the sciences deal with energy, matter, and systems well outside of our physical grasp because of size, time, and dangers. That does not make them any less "science".

Generate a sun in a laboratory. Touch the sun with your own hands. You can't. All we know of the sun and the burning hydrogen mass are its after effects, a full eight minutes after they have been occured. We can measure the heat once it strikes our planet, we can measure the residual radio waves, and we can view the spectrum coming off of it. Until relatively recently we had never seen a star die out or one be born, but that never did, nor should it have ever, prevented mankind from predicting and modeling what they thought had happened and would happen. Our universe is much like this -- we didn't see it begin, we won't see it end, but we can measure the energy, content, and how it interacts. Based on what we know from measurements done in a lab with these particles, we can form a theory of how it all came to be and how it might all end. There is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing "un-science" about that. It is just as I can observe changes in the fossil record and hypothesize about how life changes. Just because I will never see it change before my eyes because of my short life span does not make my theory any less "science".

I can guess that the sun won't come up tomorrow, and it's not science.

Pulling a guess out of a, uh, black hole isn't science -- you are correct. But formulating a theory based on research, measurements, and observations is exactly how the entire field works. You seem to imply that you think evolution and the "big bang" theory are founded on nothing more than wild imagination.

People that have issues with theories seem to be unhappy that they cannot get hard, physical evidence that they can see with their own eyes. In truth, science doesn't have a lot of truths, but it does have a lot of theories. We've never seen the electron clouds of an atom and we cannot measure the speed and location of many particles to get an exact model. Currently science seems certain we never will, but we can develop good theories that fit our needs. Theories are not facts, theories can be changed, theories can be modified, theories can be challenged. They are all works in progress, most of them destined to never be completed or accepted as "fact". Yet, none of these aspects remove these studies from the sciences or make them any less important.

If you want an easy answer that you aren't permitted to question, change, or update, please look to your bible. But do not suggest that just because you can't see it with your own eyes it isn't science. If you remove the theories that cannot be directly observed, you're removing a massive amount of important information that is crucial to our current understanding of how our world and how the universe works.

12-13-2004, 11:17 AM	#148
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	The rest is pure speculation. And speculation isn't science. Just because an atomic device had not been detonated in 1939 did not make the theories and hard work any less "science" than the research in the field was after 1945. Relativity was not properly tested until just several years ago with the LAGEOS 1 and 2 satellites, but that does not mean the theory should not have been included in texts before 2002. We'll probably never be able to create or touch a black hole, but that doesn't mean we cannot have the math behind it that can describe them to the best of our abilities. You seem to fully expect that something can not be considered "science" until it is duplicated in a laboratory and that is simply not how the field works. Many fields in the sciences deal with energy, matter, and systems well outside of our physical grasp because of size, time, and dangers. That does not make them any less "science". Generate a sun in a laboratory. Touch the sun with your own hands. You can't. All we know of the sun and the burning hydrogen mass are its after effects, a full eight minutes after they have been occured. We can measure the heat once it strikes our planet, we can measure the residual radio waves, and we can view the spectrum coming off of it. Until relatively recently we had never seen a star die out or one be born, but that never did, nor should it have ever, prevented mankind from predicting and modeling what they thought had happened and would happen. Our universe is much like this -- we didn't see it begin, we won't see it end, but we can measure the energy, content, and how it interacts. Based on what we know from measurements done in a lab with these particles, we can form a theory of how it all came to be and how it might all end. There is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing "un-science" about that. It is just as I can observe changes in the fossil record and hypothesize about how life changes. Just because I will never see it change before my eyes because of my short life span does not make my theory any less "science". I can guess that the sun won't come up tomorrow, and it's not science. Pulling a guess out of a, uh, black hole isn't science -- you are correct. But formulating a theory based on research, measurements, and observations is exactly how the entire field works. You seem to imply that you think evolution and the "big bang" theory are founded on nothing more than wild imagination. People that have issues with theories seem to be unhappy that they cannot get hard, physical evidence that they can see with their own eyes. In truth, science doesn't have a lot of truths, but it does have a lot of theories. We've never seen the electron clouds of an atom and we cannot measure the speed and location of many particles to get an exact model. Currently science seems certain we never will, but we can develop good theories that fit our needs. Theories are not facts, theories can be changed, theories can be modified, theories can be challenged. They are all works in progress, most of them destined to never be completed or accepted as "fact". Yet, none of these aspects remove these studies from the sciences or make them any less important. If you want an easy answer that you aren't permitted to question, change, or update, please look to your bible. But do not suggest that just because you can't see it with your own eyes it isn't science. If you remove the theories that cannot be directly observed, you're removing a massive amount of important information that is crucial to our current understanding of how our world and how the universe works. Last edited by Kitsune; 12-13-2004 at 11:20 AM.