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Brown Thrasher · 03-06-2005, 02:49 AM

[quote=wolf]First, as we all learned in the first month of statistics class ... correllation does not imply causality. Is it genetics, or is it learned behavior? Or is it a matter of the process of addiction itself?

Craving and physical withdrawal symptoms are not seen in social users because they don't use to the point where they've fucked up their bodies enough to require the substance. Or have they? Plenty of casual drinkers have hangovers ... it's not that far of a step to the withdrawal symptoms, shakes, seizures and DTs of the serious alcoholic deprived of his booze. Ditto for herion, for example. It doesn't take that long to develop a tolerance requiring more and more of the substance. The more you use, the harder the withdrawal. That the withdrawal symptoms are insignificant when one starts using doesn't make them any less real.

But none of that makes it a disease. It's consequences of one's choice.[/QUOTE

I beg to disagree. First of all, I think when talking about psychoactive drugs, it does to some degree show some scientific fact of a genetic causation.
Secondly, its not so much the body as the neurotransmitters in the brain such as dopamine which are depleted when obsessively using alcohol or drugs that causes the craving and withdrawal symptoms. There is a difference between a cancer patient on morphine for six months daily running out and not being able to get any for three days due to an ice storm. However someone addicted to lets say addictive pain killers, benzodiazapines, alcohol, stimulants, etc.... During that same ice storm once the craving or withrwal becomes severe they will walk through ice five miles for a few pills or a bottle of whisky. The cancer paitent unable; would not do that if they were able. Many scientist have found genes and abnormalities of alcoholics and drug abusers in their brains with pet scans and other means. I do agree that sociological factors can definetly be a factor in addiction, but I am convinced that genetics plays a major factor. Look at someone addicted to cigarettes. If you will notice the ones able to quit and stay quit dont have some other addiction such as alcohol. There is a book dealing with alcoholism that talks about the three types of drinkers. Social drinkers(occasional hangovers), heavy drinkers may drin some everday(hangovers occasionally lays out of work after to much at the lake fishing sunday), and the the alcoholic that causes harm to himself, his close ones, and society a as a whole............
If it is a problem of ones decision making, why do so many die everday. Why are our prisons filled to their capacity. Why don't they "Just say know."

03-06-2005, 02:49 AM	#5
Brown Thrasher self=proclaimed ass looking for truth whatever that means Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: A treehouse Posts: 193	[quote=wolf]First, as we all learned in the first month of statistics class ... correllation does not imply causality. Is it genetics, or is it learned behavior? Or is it a matter of the process of addiction itself? Craving and physical withdrawal symptoms are not seen in social users because they don't use to the point where they've fucked up their bodies enough to require the substance. Or have they? Plenty of casual drinkers have hangovers ... it's not that far of a step to the withdrawal symptoms, shakes, seizures and DTs of the serious alcoholic deprived of his booze. Ditto for herion, for example. It doesn't take that long to develop a tolerance requiring more and more of the substance. The more you use, the harder the withdrawal. That the withdrawal symptoms are insignificant when one starts using doesn't make them any less real. But none of that makes it a disease. It's consequences of one's choice.[/QUOTE I beg to disagree. First of all, I think when talking about psychoactive drugs, it does to some degree show some scientific fact of a genetic causation. Secondly, its not so much the body as the neurotransmitters in the brain such as dopamine which are depleted when obsessively using alcohol or drugs that causes the craving and withdrawal symptoms. There is a difference between a cancer patient on morphine for six months daily running out and not being able to get any for three days due to an ice storm. However someone addicted to lets say addictive pain killers, benzodiazapines, alcohol, stimulants, etc.... During that same ice storm once the craving or withrwal becomes severe they will walk through ice five miles for a few pills or a bottle of whisky. The cancer paitent unable; would not do that if they were able. Many scientist have found genes and abnormalities of alcoholics and drug abusers in their brains with pet scans and other means. I do agree that sociological factors can definetly be a factor in addiction, but I am convinced that genetics plays a major factor. Look at someone addicted to cigarettes. If you will notice the ones able to quit and stay quit dont have some other addiction such as alcohol. There is a book dealing with alcoholism that talks about the three types of drinkers. Social drinkers(occasional hangovers), heavy drinkers may drin some everday(hangovers occasionally lays out of work after to much at the lake fishing sunday), and the the alcoholic that causes harm to himself, his close ones, and society a as a whole............ If it is a problem of ones decision making, why do so many die everday. Why are our prisons filled to their capacity. Why don't they "Just say know." __________________ Let it rain, it eases pain.....