[OnyxCougar]

Hold the phone, Big. Just stop for a second, and take a deep breath from your indignace for a moment.

Originally Posted by BigV

NO. The incident must have started when the class was full, and the two video clips I saw were both in the vice principal's office.

The video clips you linked were (1) classroom and (2) principals office. They are clearly marked as such.

You cannot tell if that classroom is a special ed classroom or a regular classroom. You cannot tell that from the video nor from the commentary. You don't know if she's special needs or not. If she isn't, she needs to be.

The substitue/teacher in training couldn't handle the situation with the little girl, she was sent to the vice principal's office.

Perhaps that was her regular teacher, (I've seen no indication in the news story it was a sub or teacher in training) and Jaieesha lost it. Let me point out this one teeny little fact.

As a teacher, YOU CANNOT TOUCH THESE CHILDREN. You can't. That's one reason why the video tape was moved from the classroom to the principals office. Because they wanted proof (you can hear them discussing it on the tape) that the teacher did not touch the child, other than removing her from the table, which is a dangerous situation for the child. The teacher keeps saying "You cannot touch me" while Jaieesha is hitting her.

Bad behavior? Yes. But the girl is FIVE YEARS OLD. Who is the adult here?

The teacher was, and under strict guidelines CANNOT TOUCH THAT CHILD.

When you send your child to kindergarten, don't you expect the teachers and the administrators (or the nurse or the librarian or the gym teacher or the school secretary or somebody) to have had some experience with little kids? How to soothe a kid that's having a tantrum?

Yes, but.. we know the cops have seen little 5 year old Jaieesha before because she remembers the cops!! We know the mother had been called 45 minutes prior to the arrival of the cops. We know the mother wasn't there. It's obvious that Jaieesha has issues that go beyond a normal child's "tantrum".

I have a young child. I asked him how he felt when he was sent to the principal's office. His answer: scared. That sounds about right. Try to think of it from the five year old's point of view. You have no power. Things don't go your way. Mommy's gonna be mad. Hell yeah you're scared.

I bet your son, being raised by a responsible (and normally level-headed) parent, would have a tantrum, get sent home, get disciplined, and that would be it. This child had a tantrum OVER AN HOUR LONG. That is NOT a normal "tantrum". That's a special needs child that needs help that a school cannot provide.

Now that bad behavior, that acting out, that "hitting" the principal, that's not good. It's not good for the girl, the adults, or anyone else around. But how can that behavior stop? By definition, the kid's lost control at that moment. Who does the responsibility for control fall to then. Come on, think. I bet you can get this one right. Yeah. The adult.

I agree 100%, but lets keep in mind our school's rule. THEY CANNOT TOUCH THE CHILD. They cannot restrain the child. They cannot put her in a lock or a hold, or anything else, because they are the school, and if they do, it spells LAWSUIT for the school district. I promise you. No district wants a lawsuit, so they have very very strict guidelines. Ask your son's school. They won't touch him either. They will call you and keep him from hurting himself and others as much as possible WITHOUT touching him.

Remember when your young'uns were colicky, inconsolable? Hey, some power struggle over something in which you were completely right and the kiddie was completely wrong. Like this classroom situation. When you and child had this conflict, how did you settle it?

When it's MY CHILD, I would either (a) restrain or (b) beat the snot out of him until he figures out that isn't going to fly with me. The school can't do EITHER, Big. They just CAN'T.

How would you de-escalate the situation? Could you try distraction? Persuasion? Calming words? When the kid's scared, you know they're not at their most malleable or reasonable. How do you get them to do what you want? You have to soothe the fears, duh. I didn't see much of that in these two videos.

As a teacher, I'd do just what the teachers in the video did. By the time we saw Jaieesha in the classroom, it was too late. The cajoling and the persuation had already happened, and she was out of control. And she was loving her power. Let's review: if it's a regular classroom (which I sincerely doubt) she's managed to disrupt it enough to clear it out. She's got all eyes on her, she has multiple teachers there, she's getting alot of attention.

Later, in the principles office, she was tearing shit off the walls for Christ's sake. The teacher kept telling her no, using hand signals (another reason I think this was special needs...they are trained to use gestures as reinforcement) and she was playing a game with ripping the pictures off the wall. Darting, faking, she was having a damn good time.

Once a child reaches the point where they know they aren't going to be punished at school, they will act up in school. And it doesn't appear the threat of her mother was too bad, either....and was followed up with mom not showing up for over 45 minutes. Yeah. Great parenting.

Wrong.

The male cop says to the vice principal:

"I see you took my advice."

The camera is on Jaieesha, she is sitting quietly at the table. The male cop says to her:

"Jaieesha. You have to calm down and you have to do it right now. Ok? Remember me? I'm the one you told your mom put the handcuffs on you. Aight."

I've listened again and I don't hear it that way.

Yep. And leg restraints (shackles). And she was put in the back of the squad car.

Really? Explain these wild statements. I love a good fantasy story.

Come on, Big, don't be like that.

I am amazed that you would consider rewarding such incompetence with a raise. Did she do her job? Did she control the situation? Shit. Did she teach anybody anything? A raise?! phbtbbtbbtbtbt.

Damn straight. and a big ass one, too. She followed district and school policies and showed a patience and tolerance for that bullshit far better than *I* would have. She did her job AND more.

Damn straight. Because if the existing policy is to CALL THE POLICE AND HAVE THEM ARREST, HANDCUFF AND SHACKLE FIVE YEAR OLD GIRLS who have tantrums, the policy, and I'm being generous here, is b-r-o-k-e-n.

To be continued: