[MaggieL]

Originally posted by Chefranden

I can be dense sometimes but I don't understand your confusion.

Oh, I'm not confused. Just amused.

...even if I don't think that lableing is very productive.

Everybody in-thread has been using their own labeling. Since I doubt we agree on what's "productive", we surely won't agree on "productive labelling".

I wouldn't dismiss Islam a souce of social insight because of bin Laden any more then I would dismiss Christianity...

I'm dismissing neither Islam nor Christianity. But I draw a distinction between the two religions as a whole and the particular sects in question...Jim Jones isn't represerntative of Christianity, and the "worldwide jihadic fascists" or whatever you think they should be called today (as a courtesy I"ll detach "islamo-" from the term if you like, but I know a fascist when I see one) aren't representative of Islam as a whole, as some courageous Muslims are willing to tell us. There's lots of flavors of Christianity that aren't my buddies either. But they haven't threatened me with death lately.

It seems that is something you may hold in common with bin Laden as he seeks to eliminate you (and the rest of us) because he believes us to be un-principled, just as you believe him to be.

Not at all. I seek to eliminate him and his coreligionists <i>because they seek to kill me</i>, and will if they can.

This isn't about ideology, it's about survival. If they weren't seeking <i>my</i> death, I'd be delighted to ignore them, as I wish they would me. After a few mass murders my country responds militarily, and you say "See? You're as bad as they are." What a load of hooey.

I'm not particularly concerned with their principles, that's an issue their apologists keep wanting to bring into this discussion. Then when I say "I don't care", they respond "Well, you should! If you'd been embracing these principles, this violence wouldn't be necessary!". That's nonsense too.

There's just no equivalancy here, seek it as you may.

Absolutely! They wish to eliminate evil.

Well, "they seek to kill people in addition to their own cult members", is the distinction I was thinking of; this doesn't require us to agree on something as abstract as "evil".

You do say...

bin Laden has stirred millions beyond his immediate group to want to kill and maim a few thousand "infidels" as an answer to their problems.

How admirable. But "a few thousand"? You don't do your heroes justice; they're ready to kill a few thousands of *millions*--anyone who resists, in fact.--to establish their brand of religion in global control. binLaden has been very effective compared to the other cult leaders, but then he has a budget many orders of magnitude greater....money talks.