[Chefranden]

Originally posted by MaggieL

Nice move--baiting and a smear job all at once. Whoever it is that you might think "my people" are, "Gays and IV drug users" is certainly wide of the mark. (Lesbians are not at higher HIV risk than the general population. Bisexual women are perhaps higher-risk than lesbians to the extent of their unprotected sex with men....which probably still leaves them at lower risk than straight women. All irrelevant to the present discussion.)

You like to make up your own meaning to a post, and then argue against that. I think that your people are who ever you think they are. That's what I meant by your people. As if a smart real-intellectual like yourself couldn't figure it out. [I amend "gays" in my post to refer to male homosexuals, since you are pretending that you can't figure that out for yourself.] The gays in the previous post are not "your people" but the people your logic would bomb to save "your people", since they are more of a threat then Osama

The people I want stopped *aren't done yet*; by their own claim this is only the beginning. Your pseudoactuarial anaysis is also irrelevant to their ultimate goals. After all, when the Nazis first started out they hadn't actually exterminated many Jews yet either, mostly for lack of opportunity. After a few years of appeasement they managed to create some dandy opportunities, though.

As much as you try to change the subject, we are not discussing them or their goals. We are discussing the goals of Americans like you who are willing to kill innocent people to feel safe. I'm left to believe that the reason that you don't address the questions possed is that you are unable to defend your morality. The point is that you want have inocent people killed to achieve your own end, just like Osama wants to have innocent people killed to achieve his ends. It would seem that a real-intellectual like yourself could be honest about it a least, and not hide behind the usual political slogans.

Then are you also Madame Maggie, that you can predict what is to come? You really predict that Osama will be able to build ovens to roast us in? You really predict that Osama will have the power to pop us in? You need to be reminded that the Nazis had an Army, Navy and Air Force. Where is Osama going to get that? Again you haven't said how many you are willing to kill to prevent that from happening. The Nazis were willing to kill all the Jews to make the world safe for Aryans. Where does it stop with Muslims Maggie? 2million is that enough for you?

What the heck does appeasement have to do with it? Explain please how not blowing up shepherds and shopkeepers, yes and even soldiers in Iraq is appeasement to Osama.

Nor are the Jihadists fairly compared to natural causes of death; there will always be natual causes of death; until we learn to be immortal the aggregate death rate will always be 100%.

I know that I don't know as much about history as a real-intellectual, but it seems from what little I know that certain groups of humans have always had other groups of humans as enemys. How is being killed by your enemy any less un-natural then by your heart? Are you less dead when you are killed by your heart then by a bomb? Are your loved ones less sad or even less angry? If it is no big deal to be killed by your heart or your drugs, or Ford, or Firestone, why does death by Osama incite you to bomb Iraqis?

I happen to think that dying because you let religious fanatics take over is an especially stupid and ignominious way to go.

Really? More stupid then being killed by the drugs given you to make you better? More stupid than being killed for celebrating a wedding? How are they going to take over? And if they can, how is bombing bombing two puny countries like Afghanistan and Iraq that already have no way of invading us going to prevent the take over?

If that's actually to your liking because (even though you've tried to veil this message a little) "Jihadists aren't so bad because they only want to put queers to death", you should perhaps consider migrating to someplace like Nigeria, where lately they've been demonstrating who else is on their list. You might learn something; not all the lessons about the Jihadists are contained in their fatwas.

I apologize if I've tried to veil my message; if I have it's been unwitting. (Oh my, there's an opening for you). I think however that I've already condemned killings by both sides of anyone. And to that I'll add my condemnation of take overs. I hope that is clear enough now.

I said nothing about Jihadists wanting to put queers to death. I think that either you like the straw man approach to argument or you don't read posts very carefully.

Actually, if I were to migrate I'd pick someplace like Norway, which doesn't seem to have to blow anybody up to get along and be safe. But if all us pacifists did that then who would protest your quick draw mentality? Besides I must make amends for the people I've killed for God and country, by trying to prevent more of the same. If I must suffer your sharp tongue in the mean time so be it. This time it would be nice if you actually answered the points I’ve made. Who knows? If your argument is impeccable then I may be converted back into a killer.