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kerosene · 08-09-2007, 09:54 AM

Yikes. I thought we were suppose to be getting away from the archaic idea of men controlling women.

I respect your opinion, rkzenrage, but I am a little shocked.

Perhaps my problem is my inability to trust what a man would decide for my body (or our child.) This is a time when people don't have sex just to procreate and we can no longer fool ourselves about that. Don't get me wrong. If the law were this way and my husband and I got pregnant, I would trust him because I know he would respect me and we would make this decision together. If I had chosen to marry a different man? If I were not married and a surprise pregnancy came about? Who the fuck knows? Makes me even more happy about who I married. A bit of a scary thought, though.

I see a lot of problems with this law:

- If a man has the final say in whether or not to abort the baby, as someone else stated above, what is to keep some of them from abusing this law to control a woman or to "punish" her? I won't believe that this would be a small minority of situations. Many people cannot handle responsibility, so they use it to control another person. This happens already in so many other ways.

- Once the child is born, what of him/her? Can you honestly say you believe that all fathers are going to be supportive, loving, whatever for that child? What portion of those children do you suspect will end up in the state cycle, unwanted? Who pays for these services already, and whose taxes will increase as a result of further "strain" on the system? I hate to put it this way, but it is a factor.

- There are ways around this law for pregnant women, too. "I don't remember who I slept with. Here's a list, but he might not be on there."

- Who needs more laws to control us? If the man is not considered in the decision about the life of a fetus and he has a problem with that, perhaps he should have considered his partner's perspective on that ahead of time and used a condom? Or, perhaps he might have determined his partner's perspective on having children, before he started having sex with her? Same goes for the woman. If she didn't want to get pregnant, perhaps she might have taken precautions? Both parties have responsibility in this, but once a woman gets pregnant, she has full physical responsibility for that child. Only she can eat right, not lift really heavy things, etc. to take care of that child while in the womb. If she chooses to abort the baby, obviously she isn't prepared for the responsibility. The man has no physical obligation to the child, so naturally his perspective is going to be different.

- What about situations where the man makes the woman keep the baby and she later decides she wants to be a mother? I have heard of this happening in situations where the intent is to give the baby up for adoption.

This is so case by case, therefore, putting a law around it is just dangerous. I realize my points are "obvious" but they are still valid and need to be addressed.

Rage, like I said, I respect how you feel about this, but I suspect you are putting yourself in the place of one of the men whose child is aborted without your consent and thinking "what would I want?" Not all men have the same connection to their emotions that you do. Not all men would respect a woman enough not to control her or use her. I don't believe you are archaic or domineering. I just think you are looking at this without considering other perspectives.

08-09-2007, 09:54 AM	#107
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	Yikes. I thought we were suppose to be getting away from the archaic idea of men controlling women. I respect your opinion, rkzenrage, but I am a little shocked. Perhaps my problem is my inability to trust what a man would decide for my body (or our child.) This is a time when people don't have sex just to procreate and we can no longer fool ourselves about that. Don't get me wrong. If the law were this way and my husband and I got pregnant, I would trust him because I know he would respect me and we would make this decision together. If I had chosen to marry a different man? If I were not married and a surprise pregnancy came about? Who the fuck knows? Makes me even more happy about who I married. A bit of a scary thought, though. I see a lot of problems with this law: - If a man has the final say in whether or not to abort the baby, as someone else stated above, what is to keep some of them from abusing this law to control a woman or to "punish" her? I won't believe that this would be a small minority of situations. Many people cannot handle responsibility, so they use it to control another person. This happens already in so many other ways. - Once the child is born, what of him/her? Can you honestly say you believe that all fathers are going to be supportive, loving, whatever for that child? What portion of those children do you suspect will end up in the state cycle, unwanted? Who pays for these services already, and whose taxes will increase as a result of further "strain" on the system? I hate to put it this way, but it is a factor. - There are ways around this law for pregnant women, too. "I don't remember who I slept with. Here's a list, but he might not be on there." - Who needs more laws to control us? If the man is not considered in the decision about the life of a fetus and he has a problem with that, perhaps he should have considered his partner's perspective on that ahead of time and used a condom? Or, perhaps he might have determined his partner's perspective on having children, before he started having sex with her? Same goes for the woman. If she didn't want to get pregnant, perhaps she might have taken precautions? Both parties have responsibility in this, but once a woman gets pregnant, she has full physical responsibility for that child. Only she can eat right, not lift really heavy things, etc. to take care of that child while in the womb. If she chooses to abort the baby, obviously she isn't prepared for the responsibility. The man has no physical obligation to the child, so naturally his perspective is going to be different. - What about situations where the man makes the woman keep the baby and she later decides she wants to be a mother? I have heard of this happening in situations where the intent is to give the baby up for adoption. This is so case by case, therefore, putting a law around it is just dangerous. I realize my points are "obvious" but they are still valid and need to be addressed. Rage, like I said, I respect how you feel about this, but I suspect you are putting yourself in the place of one of the men whose child is aborted without your consent and thinking "what would I want?" Not all men have the same connection to their emotions that you do. Not all men would respect a woman enough not to control her or use her. I don't believe you are archaic or domineering. I just think you are looking at this without considering other perspectives.