[warch]

In such a short time span (one year), with other items being constant...unless people have suddenly gotten moral transplants, I'd say that you'd have to point to CCW.

I suggest that other items- were not constant, and were not considered in the analysis. Maybe increasing the number of gated retirement communities lowered crime. Or maybe it was the extra funding the Catholic missions received. Or maybe there were less days over 98 deg. But as proof of causation, its not clear, its correlation that proves nothing. You can measure a lower rate of criminal incidents,(assuming the definition of criminal incidents remains consistent), but targeting the probable cause of the change take more control. Here is some interesting info on John Lott whose study is most often sited http://www.citypages.com/databank/24...ticle11064.asp

And criminals don't care about gun laws--that's why they're criminals. Chicago has had a handgun ban for years now...it doesn't look like it's helped much.

The handgun ban instituted to lower a crime problem, (just as the above argument) does not address the motivation or prevention of crime. This ban is a desperate attempt to lower the number of available weapons, to not add to the problem. But as you know its easy to get a gun if you want one or feel you need one, criminal or not. If Chicago dropped their gun ban, I dont think you'd see much difference with out other efforts to reduce crime.Its way way more complex.

Lets re-arm all Iraqies and see if crime is reduced. Lets allow good kids who have passed a gun ed course to carry to school and see if that reduces school shootings.

I'm saying that many cops are outarmed right now. From armour piercing bullets, automatic weapons, other weapon innovations.. the ante keeps going up. What is ok to ban? should we allow assault weapons for those deemed legal?

Early intervention in health and education has been proven to lower criminal activity. But that requires a longterm investment and interest in the public safety of a community as well as the individual. Such initiatives are starting to be looked at for their economic impact as well. Head Start, Success by Six.

f I'm not mistaken, CCW is now the law in MN...is everyone freaking out over it? Is everyone arming to the teeth? Or is life going on as normal?

Well I saw a man get shot in a gang drive-by well before the new law. Would an armed civic response, or the threat of one, have prevented the shooting? Nah. If crossfire had broken out would more of us at the bus stop been at higher risk of injury? Yeah.

So far, the main impact I can see of the conceal and carry laws in MN is a boom in sales of signs that state "(name of establishment) bans guns in these premises" (They cant say "on" unless you own the property.) Gun ban signs are posted everywhere- small businesses, churches, restaurants, bars, theaters, schools including this University, Xcel energy center hockey games, the state fair grounds, city hall, the state capital, . You can pack it in the parking lot. Also sited at most community gatherings "Minnesotans against getting shot" petitions to have the law repealed.

Gun deaths continue - the Cold Spring school shooting . The shooter was talked down by an unarmed teacher. Got his gun from home where it was a legal purchase- Dad's in law enforcement. This is now a familiar scenario. Troubled kids with access to this tool will use it.

And a few weeks back a woman was killed and her lawyer shot through the neck at a court hearing, the hand gun was legally purchased by the shooter, a cousin of the victim. The shooter lured the two to a court house she knew didnt install metal detectors. The gun ban sign didnt deter her actions. Again crossfire in lobby wouldnt have done much preventively.

People who suffer moments of unstablity, or consider suicide, or are immature, stupid and curious, or are murderous, when there are guns available, will use this effective tool on themselves and others. My concern is that a concealed handgun law will not make communities safer, but rather make more handguns more available to all imperfect audiences.

whew, sorry so long. Whats gotten into me?