[DanaC]

Well... Depends whether you're talking about England, the UK, or Britain.

Mostly I think we tend to think of 'England' as a political entity, or state, beginning with Alfred the Great, but in reality I believe the first king of a unified England was his grandson Athelstan, early in the 10th century.

There are many 'start points' for England. Bede was probably the first to refer to us as 'English' when he named his work The Ecclesiastical History of the English People. (Historia Ecclesiastica Gens Anglorum) There was not a unified English state at this point, but a collection of kingdoms. They were however culturally distinct from the 'British' or Celtic peoples, so even before there was an England, there was an 'English' paradigm.

By the time of the Norman Conquest in 1066, England was one of the wealthiest and longest established thrones and ruling dynasties in Europe. It was also one of the most organised states of its day in terms of record keeping, taxation, the election of monarchs etc. Kings of England had far more power over their kingdom than most other monarchs, including the French king. William was a Duke before he invaded: England made him a king.

You could say at that point the nature of England changed. Whereas before much of it had held a kind of *thinks* almost federal independence along regional lines, William's ruling style was much more hands on and absolute. The vast majority of property and power changed hands at that time, with the ruling class almost completely replaced. The English state as we understand it now, could be said to have been born then.

In terms of where we place our start as an English people, I think most of us see it as having begun prior to the Norman Conquest. Most people probably don't have a clear idea of when and how, but they will place the beginnings of England much earlier than 1066, and into the 'Dark Ages'.

As far as 'Britain' is concerned there are two answers to that. We see our beginnings stretch back past Yorvik and Watling Street, Stone Henge and Mays How. Cheddar Man was dated at 10,000 years old, but the genetic markers he left can still be found in high numbers around the Cheddar area. I feel just as strong a connection to the Britons who built the great hill forts after Rome abandoned them, as I do to the Saxon mercenaries that overran them. And yet, at the same time, the people I relate strongest to are the Anglo-Saxons. I see the beginnings of my culture with them. But they are all my ancestors. We're too mixed up by now to be coy about it.

But 'British' as a national identity is very modern. It draws in imagery from all the above, but it is only a little older than America as an identity.