[Adak]

I'm in Southern California.

A number of methods are used to extract oil shale - a sort of fracking is one of them, true. However, what most people know about fracking is in relation to natural gas extraction. There are significant differences between "fracking" oil shale versus fracking natural gas. In addition, given our current technology, strip mining and extraction of petroleum via a high temperature process remains the preferred technique. This is called "retorting." You are correct in stating that natural gas is a clean fuel to burn. However, it is not always a clean fuel to extract.

If it doesn't use a deep bore and involve fracturing the underground rock/shale and recovery through the bore piping, then it's not fracking.

PA shares the dubious honor along with Colorado and a number of other states of having regions where the inhabitants can perform the burning water trick. Youtube has endless videos of people from all over the US burning their tap water.

Whatever source you found that states fracking has nothing to do with methane in the near-by area water supply is either out-of-date, or dismissive of science in the manner of many right wing outfits, or both.

Just heard the geologist speak about it, last week. How obsolete can the info be, in 7 days?

In April of 2011, the peer reviewed publication of the American Academy of Science included a research paper describing “a clear correlation between drilling activity and the seepage of gas contaminants underground, a danger in itself and evidence that pathways do exist for contaminants to migrate deep within the earth.”

Even the scientists who conducted the research were surprised at the strength of correlation.

If they don't handle the contaminants they store above ground correctly, then of course, it's likely to soak down right into the ground water. But that's not because of the fraking, that's because someone has been careless/negligent and allowed above ground contamination.

By contrast, research conducted at the behest of state and local governments has shown definate evidence of contamination and a host of other problems that result from fracking. See for example, the report issued by Garfield County containing an exhaustive examination of the methane problem on Colorado's Western Slope:

We have acted unwisely in getting our needed energy - sure. No question about it.

We have a lot of oil off our CA coast, but because of one oil spill back in the 50's, it's all off-limits. We also have a lot of oil up in the barren arctic, which is already set up with the pipeline, several wells etc., so bringing in the new wells would be very easy - but most of it has been stopped by Obama.

I'm just saying, you have a scarce commodity, and high demand. Yes, the price will increase when the demand for it increases, but it's not the companies fault it's increased.

I honestly appreciate your final comments here, Adak - I really do. You seem to have done a little reading and you don't come across as wanting an environmental wasteland any more than I do.

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Colorado and the rest of the Inter mountain West will still never recover from what will amount to decade after decade of strip mining and other types of energy exploitation.

I'm not familiar with strip mining. I know the area around Colorado Springs has a lot of contamination. I worked under the director in charge of overseeing the clean up of my employer's dumping, both in Colorado Springs, and at a plant in CA.

Remember those beautiful aspen in my first pic a way back? Well, those trees along with the spruce and the pinyon and the Doug fir and all the others are already dead. They just don't know it yet.

Notice how dry it's been out here? And it's been dry for quite a while now, come to think of it. And hasn't this been one of the warmest summers and falls ever? Sure has in MY part of the Southwest, anyhow.

Yes, this was a very warm year. But the last three Summers have been below average in So. CA.

Forests in the Inter Mountain West are already suffering from an ecological three strikes and out - climate change, fire suppression carried out like a slap in the face to all known forestry and ecological science, and an incredible outbreak - epidemic, really - of pine beetle and other destructive insects.
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Strip mining will be the final blow. The forest will never return.

It may seem that way, but forests can definitely return. Early Californians logged the giant coastal Redwoods like crazy, clear cutting everything they could get to.

Talk about a scar on the land! You can imagine a forest of almost nothing BUT huge Redwood trees, all cut down, and sent to the mill.
And there was no effort made to replant anything. Concern about ecology was very rare in those days. If it was done, it was done only enough to stop mud-slides in the wet months.

Even so, today, we have a large second growth Redwood forest. They're not the equal of the General Sherman (largest tree in the world), but they're really big and beautiful, and have again taken over the former forest.

You know what happens after a wild fire - it adds a lot of nitrogen to the soil, and next year, that will be the best growing area of the forest.

You set up nature to grow, and grow or regrow, she will. That pine beetle is the shits though - it's killed thousands of acres of pines in CA. Hiking through them is no fun - like walking through a graveyard with the dead standing above ground, instead of below.

Now, if you are like many of the other Republicans I've encountered, you probably don't "believe" in climate change or global warming.

Oh, I believe in climate change - that's obviously a part of the whole package. We've had climate change since day #1, and it will continue. What I don't believe in is guys like Al Gore, who have invested millions into "green" everything, telling me about climate change caused by man.

First, because people like Gore have big bucks to be made if they can sell this idea, (and yes, he is a HUGE energy consumer in his Tennessee mansion, as is Michael Moore in his home - hello hypocrites!), second, despite our natural egotistical slant to things, we don't control the sun, and the sun decides how much heat we receive. We control only a small portion of how much heat we retain.

But yes, our climate does change - that is irrefutable. I suspect that damn pine beetle will do worse damage than climate change to your pinyon pines, though.

I've typed you just about the longest response to a post that I can ever remember giving someone here. If you don't agree with my reasoning and don't bother to study any of the reputable links written for the scientific lay person that I've provided, that's your choice. I've already given you an ample response and I'm finished.

I wish like anything that your replies to my earlier post were correct. Unfortunately, they're not.

There's no reason why a strip mine that is closing down, can't be put back like it was - true! it won't have nearly as much mass, and won't be a "mountain" any more, (more like a hill), but it can sure have the tailings from the mine buried deep, and the area recovered with secondary and top soils, fertilized a little, and replanted.

If you have area's where that's not happening, you should be screaming at your elected officials - along with all your neighbors, and organizing for united action against it.

I've seen abandoned mines in Alaska, and it's not pretty. The area is so verdant that you don't really notice most of these mines, but still, it's a gash on the earth, and they shouldn't be allowed to remain there, once the mine is played out and no longer useful.

In Arizona they've had several people fall into old mines that were just covered over with wooden beams and dirt. Eventually, the wood rots out, and the next person or animal that weighs too much, will break through and fall.

A bond system seem sensible. The company puts up a big bond, and when the area is closed down and has been properly restored, the company gets the bond back. Otherwise, the big bond goes to restore the mine area. This may already be in place - I know VERY little about mines, aside from exploring an old Gold mine in Alaska, years ago.