Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
So how do you get more specific information without spying?
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We know that terrorist attacks were routinely averted without spying; that may 'violate civil rights' and other nation's integrity and interests. An LAX bomber was caught by an alert Border Agent while to cross from British Columbia to Washington. Because the leader in Washington was told lights were flashing red. And therefore ordered all government agencies to be vigilant. The resulting capture then may averted a potential Time Square bombing, a bombing in Canada was averted, an attack on the Raddison in Aman Jordan was averted, and an attack on tourists in Egypt was averted.
Not averted was the bombing of the USS The Sullivans. But those terrorists overloaded their boat with explosives causing that boat to sink.
Because they completely ignored warnings - the same flashing red lights - then George Jr's administration did nothing to avert 11 September. Then used it as an excuse for unlimited spying, extraordinary rendition, secret prisons, holding over 600 innocent people in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Mission Accomplished, and even performing torture (as if acting like a Nazi Gestapo agent was acceptable).
We have numerous despicable and illegal actions to undo or discover. Many were ongoing because they were kept secret (as WikiLeaks demonstrated) or because their actions involve new technologies not yet defined by laws (in a Congress with many who say they want America to fail).
The Eagle and the Snowman was because the US government intentionally tried to subvert presidential elections in Australia. Because the powers that be knew a socialist must be a communist. Many leaks occurred because government actions were contemptuous. Ie Viet Nam resulted in the Pentagon Papers. Watergate and all other Nixon activities were finally exposed by people doing what would otherwise be called illegal.
Nobody can yet honestly say whether Snowden is a traitor or a hero. Too many facts are unknown; and maybe for years.
But we do know that major attacks are easily averted with less intelligence gathering and more intelligence in the leadership. Most failures to avert such attacks are found in leadership; not in insufficient spying.
We have examples of attacks averted because the leadership was intelligent. And other attacks permitted because the leadership was inspired by rhetoric rather than their job.
We must still publicly decide the limits of electronic spying. That (and not Snowden) should be an entire discussion that so many are still trying to avoid.