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04-02-2004, 05:37 PM

"But in reality (something you don't seem to know much about) crime was far lower before income taxes, education was better, and people had more freedom."

Class, please give a brief one page analysis of the population size and composition in the United States in the 19th versus 21st centuries. Extra credit: Discuss civil liberties in the two times.

You know, one reason why Ayn Rand could write as she did was because she was a Russian with little grounding in the American experience or American history. Presumably you don’t have the same excuse, Mr. Reality, I mean Radar. Yeah, the US and every other country in the world could get away with all sorts of things in the 19th century, including the abuse of personal liberties of which slavery is only the most obvious example. And if I go along with your theory that life was so much better in 19th century America before income taxes with no other economic or sociological factors taken into account, then I get to say stuff like “Well, you see, when they didn’t have income taxes, they had slaves. QED!” It makes as much of a logical argument as you do.

I want to see your statistics on literacy rates in the 1850’s versus the 1950’s. I want to see your analyses of the crime rate and personal safety, especially that of black Americans. I want you to give concrete examples of how people like child factory workers and slaves had more personal freedoms. If you are going to make such a statement, I want you to back it up with solid evidence, not rhetoric. When you have proved to me what a great place 19th century America was, I want you to prove that this was directly the result of no income taxes. I want hard facts and the use of logic in your conclusions.

You bet I cherish my right to keep and bear arms. I’ll need weapons in the case of any potential libertarian take-over. As a matter of fact, let the Libertarians and all those who espouse similar beliefs set up their own state or their own area of anarchy – however they would define it. Since we all live in the REAL world, I’m sure the good people of say, New Jersey or New Mexico would happily cede a portion of their state to the Libertarians since everyone is so disposed to be in a frenzy of charitable giving. And since the Libertarians are opposed to government handouts, we’ll even let them pay fair market value for their little bit of New Jersey. The sole stipulation will be that they leave for their new territory and never come back. I for one am sick and tired of having to engage with the libertarian voice in matters of national dialog. Bottom line, you don’t WANT a nation, so why don’t you retire from the scene and leave the rest of us in peace?

Go live in your “Libertaria” with no public schools or libraries or system of highways. No public health facilities or police protection or national mail distribution. These things should be no problem in the REAL world, right? There will be no tariffs, so anything and everything will flow freely both ways across their borders. Except people out – you’ve all signed an agreement, remember?

After five years of this experiment with everyone building their own roads and hiring their own thugs to protect them, sending their children to school while the children of the working class be damned (just how many of the working class will sign on for “Libertaria,” anyhow? The American worker is not as dumb as he may look), just how strong a border patrol will the US have to have to keep you crack pots from coming back in to the system you so despise? The current problem on our border with Mexico would pale by comparison. But its OK, Radar, I promise you that in such an event we’ll show you all the sympathy and compassion you have shown for the poor and disabled of your former country. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass when you go. After all, “America – love it or leave it!” Right?

“I suppose you think if someone is against the government using stolen money to feed people, they are against eating.”

Frankly, if that’s the only way people can be fed, then so be it. There’s a reason why Robin Hood became a cultural icon. By the way, they didn’t have income taxes back in Robin’s time, so why wasn’t he a bit merrier about the whole thing?

04-02-2004, 05:37 PM	#87
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	"But in reality (something you don't seem to know much about) crime was far lower before income taxes, education was better, and people had more freedom." Class, please give a brief one page analysis of the population size and composition in the United States in the 19th versus 21st centuries. Extra credit: Discuss civil liberties in the two times. You know, one reason why Ayn Rand could write as she did was because she was a Russian with little grounding in the American experience or American history. Presumably you don’t have the same excuse, Mr. Reality, I mean Radar. Yeah, the US and every other country in the world could get away with all sorts of things in the 19th century, including the abuse of personal liberties of which slavery is only the most obvious example. And if I go along with your theory that life was so much better in 19th century America before income taxes with no other economic or sociological factors taken into account, then I get to say stuff like “Well, you see, when they didn’t have income taxes, they had slaves. QED!” It makes as much of a logical argument as you do. I want to see your statistics on literacy rates in the 1850’s versus the 1950’s. I want to see your analyses of the crime rate and personal safety, especially that of black Americans. I want you to give concrete examples of how people like child factory workers and slaves had more personal freedoms. If you are going to make such a statement, I want you to back it up with solid evidence, not rhetoric. When you have proved to me what a great place 19th century America was, I want you to prove that this was directly the result of no income taxes. I want hard facts and the use of logic in your conclusions. You bet I cherish my right to keep and bear arms. I’ll need weapons in the case of any potential libertarian take-over. As a matter of fact, let the Libertarians and all those who espouse similar beliefs set up their own state or their own area of anarchy – however they would define it. Since we all live in the REAL world, I’m sure the good people of say, New Jersey or New Mexico would happily cede a portion of their state to the Libertarians since everyone is so disposed to be in a frenzy of charitable giving. And since the Libertarians are opposed to government handouts, we’ll even let them pay fair market value for their little bit of New Jersey. The sole stipulation will be that they leave for their new territory and never come back. I for one am sick and tired of having to engage with the libertarian voice in matters of national dialog. Bottom line, you don’t WANT a nation, so why don’t you retire from the scene and leave the rest of us in peace? Go live in your “Libertaria” with no public schools or libraries or system of highways. No public health facilities or police protection or national mail distribution. These things should be no problem in the REAL world, right? There will be no tariffs, so anything and everything will flow freely both ways across their borders. Except people out – you’ve all signed an agreement, remember? After five years of this experiment with everyone building their own roads and hiring their own thugs to protect them, sending their children to school while the children of the working class be damned (just how many of the working class will sign on for “Libertaria,” anyhow? The American worker is not as dumb as he may look), just how strong a border patrol will the US have to have to keep you crack pots from coming back in to the system you so despise? The current problem on our border with Mexico would pale by comparison. But its OK, Radar, I promise you that in such an event we’ll show you all the sympathy and compassion you have shown for the poor and disabled of your former country. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass when you go. After all, “America – love it or leave it!” Right? “I suppose you think if someone is against the government using stolen money to feed people, they are against eating.” Frankly, if that’s the only way people can be fed, then so be it. There’s a reason why Robin Hood became a cultural icon. By the way, they didn’t have income taxes back in Robin’s time, so why wasn’t he a bit merrier about the whole thing?