[mrnoodle]

something doesn;t jive here. you won;t gamble because you're afraid of losing the bet, right? you imply that you believe in god just in case it turns out to be true. Enough to use it as an argument, at least.

The throwaway lines we use come back to bite us on the ass. No, I didn't become a Christian because of that - and I've made that clear throughout the discussion. You picked one phrase that helps your argument to the exclusion of the rest. It's a popular tack - just look at any debate involving the bible where someone picks out something from Leviticus like, "Thou shalt stone they who blahblahblah" and use it to discredit the entire argument for God.

but is it faith in spite of the fact that you MUST have it? If you have to have faith, and have to believe to get in, how do you know you haven;t just done a good job of tricking yourself into believing that you truly believe.

There are times when I don't have much faith - after all, it's a transitive sort of state. But when I accepted in my heart and with my mind that Jesus died for my sins and made the conscious determination to try to live like him because I believed his teaching, the books were balanced. Right then, at that moment. As for tricking myself into believing that I believe......have you actually read that statement? If I'm completely fooled into thinking that I believe - um, I've met the requirements for belief. It's the same thing.

How many "christians" are just going through the motions "just in case?" they go to church, they follow the rules, but maybe they doubt it a little.....maybe they think ther might be some truth to another religion, too. Is it enough to SAY you believe?

Too many people say the little prayer and start becoming all churchy without ever really giving their lives to Christ, and they are on very, very dangerous ground. It's not up to me to decide who is a Christian and who isn't, though. And it's not up to me to decide who goes where when they die. But Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father except through me." It's up to each person to decide whether that's true or not. Like I said before, I don't think Jesus was either a liar or insane.

does a christian's faith have to be absolute? what if you're having a "bad faith day" when you happen to die?

If you have accepted Christ, you are already saved. Because of his sacrifice, the penalty for your sin is paid. You lack the power to either save yourself or negate the gift you have accepted. You will go to heaven on a "bad faith day".

i will not accept that a truly good person who does not happen to accept jesus h christ as his savior will fry for eternity. that's ludicrous. can you honestly say you DO believe that? really???

Jesus said it is true. I believe it. Really. Because there is no such thing as a "truly good person". All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. It's the condition of sin that seperates us, not a tally sheet of individual offenses.

That's why I tell people about it. And as ludicrous as it sounds to human ears, it's something set down by the God of the universe. He is jealous, but merciful. So, no, you can't do whatever the hell you want and get away with it. But he gave you an out. Take it if you wish, but if you don't take it, don't blame him. You wanted choice, remember?

Incidentally, the little religious rules that individual denominations set forth are mostly hogwash, IMO. That has nothing to do with salvation though.