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06-06-2015, 05:42 PM | #46 | |
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Legal - no. It's a key difference, our rights aren't a guarantee that everything we do within them is right, just that it isn't right to prevent us from doing it. On that level I have no problem with cat calling becoming consciously rude - maybe to be treated a few decades from now the same we do now with elders using racial slurs. But that's on a level of cultural adaptation. Still, the general trend this is part of is... Troubling & interesting. We are culturally blocking more and more of the old natural mediums of initiation just at the time we've become remarkably good at consolidating human interaction artificially. |
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06-06-2015, 06:05 PM | #47 |
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06-07-2015, 07:58 AM | #48 | |
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Next time, TRIGGER WARNING! |
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06-07-2015, 09:09 AM | #49 | |
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Oh, offence is a funny one. Everybody has their own idea of what may or may not be offensive.
At a theoretical level I'm less concerned with the content - I'm more concerned with the context and degree of imposition. At a personal level, the content matters - but again, it's not really about offence. If a bloke tells me my mouth would look a lot better round his cock (and I must say that sort of comment doesn't come my way much now I'm in my 40s ;p) my response isn't so much to be offended, as it is to be flummoxed, embarrassed, suddenly and cripplingly self-conscious and to try and exit the encounter with as much grace as possible. The only time I feel offended, as such, is when someone has made a really horrible comment which intended to hurt and offend - like being told by a random stranger that i look like a man in a dress - or that I look like a dog. I've been frightened and intimidated by encounters though. But again - that is all about context. Here's two real life scenarios that show a distinct tonal difference: 1. Walking through a housing estate, past a shop and there's a group of young men larking about. They see me coming, and block my way. They're smiling and joking, but I am also half surrounded. One of them makes a lewd suggestion - another says, 'ignore him' and laughingly puts his arm around my shoulders. I laughed along, made a comment of my own and continued on my way. It doesn't sound like much - and they didn't say or do anything greatly offensive - but their physical domination of the pavement, and imposition of their interaction on me was intimidating. 2. Standing outside a hotel in London having a quick smoke and a young, very hip looking black guy in his 20s calls over to me if he could get a cig off me. Then asked me if I was looking for another kind of smoke. I declined as i was already sorted for that (;p) he made a very flattering comment and invited me to go back home with him to get wasted. I declined. And before he went on his way he asked if he could hug me goodbye. So we hugged. That was a positive interaction. He was very sweet - there was a little flirting -It was an uninvited approach from a total stranger - but he wasn't imposing or intimidating. It had a social context - a conversational opening gambit, with continued interaction following social cues. If he'd have made a real pass at me or something, at that point, whilst I'd have declined, i certainly wouldn't have been offended. The trouble with catcalling is it is without the appropriate social context. Otherwise it wouldn't be catcalling.
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06-07-2015, 11:05 AM | #50 | |
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I have had so many problems in my life with so-called nice guys who in the end behaved with no less entitlement than the lewd guys, but they had convinced themselves that rather than "wanting" it, they had "earned" it. At least the lewd guys usually know they're being a jackass. |
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06-08-2015, 08:52 PM | #51 | ||
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06-08-2015, 08:53 PM | #52 | |
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06-08-2015, 09:03 PM | #53 | |
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06-08-2015, 09:57 PM | #54 |
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That's good stuff.
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06-08-2015, 10:52 PM | #55 |
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Real humans are so tough to nail down though. Because if I take this, and the experiences of other very frank men, at face value, I can construct the "male experience" as a certain thing, and try to work with it and learn how to interact with it. But then other men who have less testosterone naturally flowing in their system will get angry that assumptions are being made.
On the one hand, I truly believe we're all just a bag of chemicals and free will is an illusion, but on the other hand, we're each such a completely different bag of chemicals, you know? |
06-09-2015, 01:56 AM | #56 |
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I would like to see a time where we can all just be accepted as people. Not male or female or any of the other labels in between. Recently there was a transgender child who was born a boy, but has apparently identified as a girl since he/she was old enough to think for herself. She's in year 3, so 8yrs old and recently was permitted to compete with the girls rather than the boys. Whilst ethically I think this was the right decision, it certainly leaves a lot to be asked about physical strength etc and there has been a social media uproar about it over here.
Obviously the reason for that is because, no matter how much women or feminists push to be considered equal to men in all areas, the fact of the matter is that we aren't. Just as men are not equal to women in all areas. Of course there will always be exceptions to these rules, but in general, male and female humans respond differently emotionally and physically to just about everything. How could we ever expect to be equal?
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06-09-2015, 07:34 AM | #57 | |
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06-09-2015, 08:46 AM | #58 | ||
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Between 00:30 and 2:14:
Disclaimer: These are regarding cognitive psychology though, their might be differences in personality that aren't as easy to place on a metric. The most obvious one is ofcourse crime statistics, followed by the wage gap analysis. Certainly there are groups that would insist that one of those is systematic oppression while the other is natural (MRA/feminism), but in all closer examinations it seems a matter of the choices people make, which can reflect that men and women do make different choices. Quote:
The moment you agree to the notion that someone is "truly [insert gender inside] but in the wrong body", you agree to the assumption that gender is about what you truly are and not simply your sex. In a way it contradicts with the premise of a gender neutral society. I had a few interesting discussions about that with an MTF who was more scientific minded then ideological. There is a lot of interesting research done about gender differences that show up in FMRI's and actually correspond with the FMRI of transfolk (MTF get female indicators and FTM get male indicators)... So it might just be that the "Gender = nothing but sex" premise is simply wrong. Maybe the closest we can come is feminism in the style of Wendy McElroy or Christina Hoff Sommers rather then traditional 3rd wave feminism: Simply a society of equal opportunities within our system & a culture empathy beyond the realms of our own gender. Maybe that's the most that can be done without causing more damage then good. |
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06-09-2015, 08:38 PM | #59 |
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
06-09-2015, 09:04 PM | #60 | |
We have to go back, Kate!
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Heheh.
Very good.
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