What is a hobby breeder?

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by monster

So they fail to S/N... they don't get the pedigree certificate. But they can still sell a puppy to people who don't care about the papers/don't know any better, just want the dog... for let's say, 75% of what you would have asked.....? Nice income, deal for the people who don't care about paperwork.... no, not your fault they don't care... but where did the desire come from?

/devilsadvocate

Sure they could do that but pet millers are crying now because no one is buying their registered puppies. I don't believe I am responsible for anyone's desires.
If you were an actress in a movie and you were a slasher is it your fault that someone goes out and murders someone else?

[Nirvana]

I forgot to add most puppies of my breed from pet millers are more expensive in the pet stores than I and others sell our spay/neuter pets.
It is up to the consumer to do their homework before buying a pet. The "need it now" mentality is exactly right Dana and that is not attributable to breeders such as myself.
I am not responsible for the war in Iraq either!

[monster]

....you wrote the first post like it wasn't personal.... suddenly it is?

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by classicman

That seems like a rather bold statement - How exactly do you track them and their offspring and their offspring and so on?


And there are many who do not. The question is how to stop one while promoting more of the other.

Not only is it bold it is factual. I explained why I know where the dogs are that I personally have sold. BREED WARDENS. I have sold less than 20 dogs intact since I have been breeding. Not too hard to track twenty dogs.
I know people that have 30 dogs. Not a number that I would keep and breed but they have plenty of help and the place is clean and the dogs are well cared for, who the hell am I to tell them how many dogs they can breed or keep? Who the hell is anyone else to tell someone what they can do with their time and money as long as it is not affecting you or harming the dogs?

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by monster

....you wrote the first post like it wasn't personal.... suddenly it is?

Not sure what you mean, I can only explain myself personally.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Not sure what you mean, I can only explain myself personally.

Well your first post was: this is what hobby breeders do and why.....and then when people pointed out that maybe not all of them do, you said (paraphrased) "well I do...I can't speak for everyone else"... and yet that's just what you seemed to be doing in the first post....

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Not only is it bold it is factual. I explained why I know where the dogs are that I personally have sold. BREED WARDENS. I have sold less than 20 dogs intact since I have been breeding. Not too hard to track twenty dogs.

... from 20 dogs over 20 years and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters....

How man litters a year? 2 - 4? at how many pups per litter and all those litters litters.
Most of which are being bred overseas. The numbers grow rather quickly.
One would think it most difficult to track all of them, if not impossible. Just sayin.
But there is probably a simple explanation.

[Nirvana]

I never said I could not speak for anyone else, I only said what I do personally. Hobby breeders have learned to now have a strong lobbying influence. I only contributed to the first post.
A conglomeration of hobby breeders wrote it as information for legislators to understand how passing animal restrictive legislation punishes the people that are for one thing spending money in their districts.
Other things that have been done is that we keep a running tally of all the money we spend in various venues while attending dogs shows and performance events. This information is passed on to the legislative bodies. We are not the same as commercial pet breeders and some of the laws that are being put on the books would put unnecessary restrictions on those of us that are not really the problem or the source of the problem.

[Undertoad]

You can only do what you can do.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by classicman

... from 20 dogs over 20 years and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters....

How man litters a year? 2 - 4? at how many pups per litter and all those litters litters.
Most of which are being bred overseas. The numbers grow rather quickly.
One would think it most difficult to track all of them, if not impossible. Just sayin.
But there is probably a simple explanation.

Simple explanation for what? You think I am responsible for pet over population and you want to make up statistics for me? Unlike me you know nothing about the people that have my dogs and maybe they did not breed them at all. Anyhoo it is not really necessary for you to know my business is it? Just like its not for the government to know my business or to tell me what to do with my own property. Since you have no idea how I know and its impossible to explain it to you I guess you will just have to wonder.

[monster]

Hey, I'm cool with what you do, but it's just that i can see the POV of those who aren't. Personally, i could live with all dog breed dyng out....

[Nirvana]

I can see why the uninformed have a problem with what I do but animal rights extremists have no right to tell me what to do.

Typical dog show weekend cost when I can afford to go. I am low balling it...

entries for two dogs two days- $100
gas to go- $50-$100
motel -$300
food -$75
vendors at the show[ dog supplies] $50-$100

There are 900-3500 entries of dogs at the show per day so lets say 700 to 2000 people for each day. Anyone can do the math here breeders like me spend way more money than we can ever hope to recoup breeding dogs. If you do away with our hobby you will do away with the revenues and some of the jobs this industry has created.

[classicman]

I never assumed to know what you did/do. Purchasing an in-tact dog does typically imply that the owner is going to breed. I asked a question and hypothesized how potentially difficult, IF POSSIBLE, it is to track all the "in-tact" dogs you sold and their lineage over 20 years.
You started discussing your business and the Gov't? whatever. I really don't care that much. I was curious how it was possible though. Whatever - Peace, I'm out. Curiosity in this cat is d-e-a-d.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by classicman

I never assumed to know what you did/do. Purchasing an in-tact dog does typically imply that the owner is going to breed. I asked a question and hypothesized how potentially difficult, IF POSSIBLE, it is to track all the "in-tact" dogs you sold and their lineage over 20 years.
You started discussing your business and the Gov't? whatever. I really don't care that much. I was curious how it was possible though. Whatever - Peace, I'm out. Curiosity in this cat is d-e-a-d.

Only in your mind is it implied that buying an intact dog = breeding it. Since it is my business you cannot possibly know how difficult or impossible it would be to track anything about the dogs I have placed. Giving you that information would involve telling you about the individuals that have my dogs and frankly that won't be happening. You are not involved, your points and innuendo are moot. Glad to know the cat is dead so is the horse.

[classicman]

:bites tongue: repeatedly.