The Gender Equality Checkpoint

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I watched a show last night (sort of. It was on TV and I couldn't be bothered turning it off till I got up from the computer) called Blinging up Baby. It was a British show about women who are totally obsessed with buying fancy clothes and putting make up on their baby/toddler/little girls.

One of the women was talking to her little girl of about 6 about wearing make up and how all women look better with 'a bit of make up on', and the child was agreeing and going along with it.

When we live in a society where grown women think like this, and actively encourage the next generation to believe it, is it any wonder that we're all confused about gender roles and equality? According to the woman on that show, a woman who doesn't wear make up isn't even a real woman anyway!

This is what makes the whole gender / sexism issue so complicated and difficult. We all make this culture. Sexism isn't something men apply to women - it's something we as a society build in to our culture. We inculcate our young into whatever gender conceptions we have. Right up to the extremes - it isn't men who carry out FGM on young girls, it is grandmothers and female elders of the community.

We exist within our gendered world - it is impossible to fully step outside it, even if we want to. For those who don't even question it - it is as simple and immutable a fact of life as the air we breathe.

[Sundae]

It's weird how attitudes can shift and change in such a short space of time though.

For example the idea that "Every little girl wants to be a Princess." When I was a little girl, there were plenty of stories of Princesses desperate to escape palace life, who ran away and lived poor, who loved their horses and grooms more than dresses, who would never kiss a frog just in case it became a Prince, but knew how to shoot an arrow or splint a broken wing...

And yet it's presumably my generation of women who are raising little girls believing they are obsessed with pink, hate getting muddy and really only want to attend State Functions where they talk to elderly statesmen until they become brood mares.

My heroines were Florence Nightingale, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Grace Darling, Zola Budd.
Maybe I let the side down by not passing this on to daughters of my own.

[it]

Originally Posted by DanaC

This, right here, is one of the tragedies of gender inequality. And it works both ways. When we corale, with the full force of society and culture, each gender into a narrow path - how many potentially great scientists are stifled? And, on the other side of that equation, how many potentially wonderful nurses and teachers?

I agree, which is why I think a return to gender traditionalism would be economically and culturally devastating in so many ways, not to mention individually (IMO it was a rotten deal all around).

And yet this is also the reason why the solution needs to be in the realms of equal opportunities, not strong arming institutions into equal results, because in many ways we are turning the wheel backwards, for the 18 girls who didn't get to study what they wanted within the sciences because the 60 student course teaching it didn't reach the required gender quota (Or you know, for the 42 boys).

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Separate schooling for young boys and girls ?
...Maybe OK

Separate academic locations for men and woman ?
...No, this knight is not going forward

Women Respond to Nobel Laureate’s ‘Trouble With Girls’
NY Times - DAN BILEFSKY - JUNE 11, 2015

As outdated and foolish as Hunt's comments were - I do think the UCL forcing him to resign was a step too far. I don't think it helps at all that this man's career is now in the wind. He had apologised for what he said - an attempt at humour that went awry.

I get why UCL take it seriously - with all the historical and current barriers to full participation in scientific fields, and the great efforts academic institutions are putting into finding a better balance - his comments were very unhelpful - coming from such a leading voice in academia. But - I don't like that he's been forced out over it.

[Clodfobble]

Show of hands, who here has ever cried at work, whether in front of people, or in the bathroom or parking lot but at least one coworker caught you?

I have.

[it]

Originally Posted by DanaC

As outdated and foolish as Hunt's comments were - I do think the UCL forcing him to resign was a step too far. I don't think it helps at all that this man's career is now in the wind. He had apologised for what he said - an attempt at humour that went awry.

I get why UCL take it seriously - with all the historical and current barriers to full participation in scientific fields, and the great efforts academic institutions are putting into finding a better balance - his comments were very unhelpful - coming from such a leading voice in academia. But - I don't like that he's been forced out over it.

Ironically might do a better job at pushing women away then he did, by missing the joke and reinforcing the stereotype that scientists tend to live lower along the autistic spectrum (One of my closer friends is a quantum biologist outright diagnosed with autism and he was able to get the social tone and humor.... Just sayin').

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Show of hands, who here has ever cried at work, whether in front of people, or in the bathroom or parking lot but at least one coworker caught you?

I have.

I generally don't cry. But I get choked up a bit, or get teary-eyed, and in my 24 years here, that's happened on a few occasions at work.

Most memorable was when a homeless guy committed suicide at our workplace by gaining access to our roof and jumping into the alleyway. So many people rushed to the offices on that side of the building to gape at the body during the police investigation. It was just so SAD to me. The suicide, sure, but mostly my cow orkers' reactions to it. I didn't look, BTW. It still bothers me today, years later. What's wrong with people?

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Show of hands, who here has ever cried at work, whether in front of people, or in the bathroom or parking lot but at least one coworker caught you?

I have.

I have, more than once. But as far as I can remember, only for personal reasons. My sister made me cry more times at work (not all caught) than any other reason put together.

I think partly in ignorance, as after the age of 21 she's only ever worked part-time and never had an accessible work landline. She seemed to think she could be as mean and disapproving as she wanted while I was sat at a desk I couldn't get away from for a good few hours... But then I never smoked at work, so if you add up the paltry minutes lost to my tearful episodes, my employers would have benefited more from refusing to employ smokers.

[classicman]

I have.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Women are tricksy! I was reading this interesting article by Sarah Laskow on the hundreds of products in our grocery basket which have been modified by atomic radiation.

Suddenly, without warning, I was subjected to this:

Recently, mutant breeding's enjoyed a bit of a Renaissance, too, as biomolecular advances have enabled more targeted mutations and quick assessments of what's changed in the plant's genome. Instead of waiting for a plant to grow, a scientist can quickly recognize changes in the mutated plant's DNA sequence and decide whether it's the mutation she wants or not.

A woman scientist?!? What a preposterous notion, I damn near dropped my monocle.

[it]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Show of hands, who here has ever cried at work, whether in front of people, or in the bathroom or parking lot but at least one coworker caught you?

I have.

Yes, though technically I wasn't caught crying so much as had a waitress mentioning there's wet spots on a sandwich she was about to bring to the customer (I was working in the kitchen at the time).

[Aliantha]

I cried in my bosses office when I was asking for time off when I split from the boys father. He was understanding and never judged me for it. He was an old softy though. I miss him actually. He was always good to me too. Continued to promote me afterwards too.

I have dealt with numerous crying women in office situations though, both as an equal and as a boss. Occassionally as an underling. I think (believe it or not) people irl see me as someone to be relied on to offer good advice, and who can be trusted with sensitive information.

[Aliantha]

Actually even now I have women crying into their teacups at my kitchen table at least once a week. Often more often. I think locals know I work from home and the kettle is always hot, and there's usually a cookie around too, so the just drop in. It's nice. I like the company, and no one minds if I keep working while we talk.

[Sundae]

If'n it got me into your kitchen, I'd be walking down your street rubbing oniony fingers into my eyes every week...
Then again, I'm semi-professional at crying these days, so I wouldn't even need to do that.

[Aliantha]

It would be a real treat to have you in my kitchen sundae, even if you were crying. X