2016 Election

[glatt]

I've wondered what his motivation is.

[BigV]

pfft.. power fame attention...

I don't think he has demonstrated anything like a civic conscience.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sure he has, to make America great again.. it says so on his hat.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by glatt

... But I did skim an article this morning, and have come to the conclusion that what she did was irregular, but nowhere near as bad as her detractors are saying. The "classified" emails she had on her private server were not classified when they were put there. They were designated as being classified long after the fact.

You can't retroactively make something illegal and then expect to nail somebody for it when it was legal at the time. ...

[BOLD MINE]

That's not the issue. Information is classified to control dissemination; because, uncontrolled dissemination is expected to be harmful to the US and its interests. How harmful it may be is reflected in the level of classification. Hillary had government information in her private account that rose to that level; but, failed to submit it to a classifying authority for determination and control.

If Hillary had been using her government account, that process would have happened automatically and potentially harmful information would have been classified in a timely fashion. Hillary could also have had her State Dept. staff put a tentative classification on potentially harmful information in her personal account pending classifying authority review. Everyone who came into contact with that information would then have been legally obligated to treat it as classified during the interim even if it was leaked.

As a SF Intelligence NCO, I had to do the same thing. It was expected that I would encounter and have to report raw information the dissemination of which had to be controlled. I wasn't a classifying authority (those are bona fide government agencies); but, I was formally trained and authorized to assign tentative classifications including formatting from cover sheets and page markings right down to proper font size to meet specifications that made it legally binding on others.

That Hillary, as Secretary of State, couldn't get this done to protect US interests reflects a lackadaisical attitude about information security and its importance. If I had done what she did, I would have lost my security clearance.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

The "classified" emails she had on her private server were not classified when they were put there. They were designated as being classified long after the fact.

That is not entirely true. There are some that were clearly classified. She even wrote about it. Also there is the issue of the FOIA requests which were ignored.

Originally Posted by glatt

But we still have the issue of using a private server for government emails. That's very irregular. The only conclusion I can draw is that she wanted complete control and the ability to delete stuff she didn't want to be public. I can't approve of that. So I won't be voting for Hillary in the Virginia primary if Bernie Sanders is still in the running.

Thats good to hear. I can't imagine anyone voting for her. What about Biden?

[it]

Nah. Send him here, I could use a shoulder massage.

[Griff]

Can someone explain the Trump thing to me? I get an instinctive skin crawl from the dude but somebody apparently likes him.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think a lot of it is giving the government and the real politicians the finger.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Griff

I get an instinctive skin crawl from the dude .

Oh hell, me too. There's something really amiss with the guy. i don't mean in terms of his politics - I've known plenty of politicians whose ideas I despised but who were personally charismatic. When I see him on tv, my lizard brain tells me to beware.

[classicman]

What Bruce said. Well that and there is NO ONE on team R that is inspiring in any way. They're all trying to remain calm and keep the crazy inside from showing.

[classicman]

Here is the article on Hillary and the email stuff relevant to the FOIA I mentioned.

Veteran reporter Sharyl Attkisson contends the latest batch of emails from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s private server, released by the U.S. State Department, proves that the “law has been blatantly violated.”

and here is her site

The newly-released batch of Hillary Clinton emails provides further proof that Freedom of Information (FOI) law has been blatantly violated. The documents include material directly responsive to a FOI request I made back in 2012 after the Benghazi terrorist attacks on the U.S. compounds. However, the material was not produced at the time, as required by law. Once again, there appears to be nobody who holds government officials and agencies accountable for their routine violation of this law. So the infractions occur frequently and with impunity. If nobody polices our government officials and agencies–if they are above the law–then how does a lawful society function?

[it]

Well, I can think of few reasons people might like Trump:

1. Speaking his mind:
Plenty of republicans who share his views but live in a cultural mindset that they are not alright to say. I know this because when people used to mistake my libertarian preferences to mean republican, they'd often assume I was part of the club and just spew that shit with me - "I don't believe we should let black people run the country", "I don't believe a women can govern", etc. But most of the time in social situations they try to maneuver around saying it. Can you imagine how cathartic it could feel for them to hear someone saying things like this out loud?

2. Jealousy for his lifestyle:
Plenty of people fantasize about been all powerful billionaires, plenty of people look at his luxury lifestyle with lust, plenty of guys would like his wife for a trophy. Really, who wouldn't want to give children a helicopter ride they'll remember for a lifetime? Where there is jealousy, there is often also admiration, and that can create glasses through which he'd seem a lot more charming then otherwise.

3. Frustration with the current system:
Bruce is right on that one. But it's more then the middle finger, to some extent it can be justified. Every other politician in the race is going to be backed up by lobbyists and interest groups from everywhere. It's kind of ironic, because voting to trump is kind of like jumping over the politician and voting straight to the financial backer, but the result is that he appears uncorruptible. Realistically, he still runs multi billion dollar companies and will be in a position to give political favors with financial returns - something we saw quite a bit in the Bush administration, but this could take it to a whole new level.

[tw]

Work in facilities that are government secure and learn that nobody really knows what is secret and what is not. Many times things get classified secret after the fact. Or because what is common knowledge was once secret. All this secret messages in a server is hooey designed to manipulate us who have no idea what nonsnese this really is.

Just like Swift boating that also manipulated the naive with a lie.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by tw

Work in facilities that are government secure and learn that nobody really knows what is secret and what is not. Many times things get classified secret after the fact. Or because what is common knowledge was once secret. All this secret messages in a server is hooey designed to manipulate us who have no idea what nonsnese this really is.

Just like Swift boating that also manipulated the naive with a lie.

Hooey on you oh naïve one:

Reuters | Alistair Bell and Susan Heavey

... Clinton, the Democratic front-runner for the November 2016 election, did not apologize for her own behavior but said she was wrong not to use a government email account when she was serving as the nation's top diplomat. ...

... "I certainly wish that I had made a different choice and I know why the American people have questions about it," Clinton said. "I take responsibility. I should have had two accounts, one for personal and one for work-related." ...

... The FBI is now investigating the security of the private server and any classified information on it. ...

... Reviews by Reuters of Clinton emails released to the public under a judge's orders found 87 email threads that the State Department has marked to show they include information shared in confidence by foreign government officials, from prime ministers to spy chiefs.

U.S. government regulations say this sort of information, whether written or spoken, must be classified from the start and handled through secure, government-controlled channels.

Clinton said she used the personal email account for convenience and did not give the issue much thought when she took over as secretary of state in 2009. ...

I told you so.

[Big Sarge]

I think this election will be a choice between bad or worse.