The Gender Equality Checkpoint

[Sundae]

Ah, bringing religion into it changes everything.
Location also.

My reading and the anecdotal evidence I've heard suggests that closed communities are the most accepting. Which includes areas in cities and rural communities. Obviously not in the case of your Grandparents.

But the East End was very much a place where you deal with you own problems, and don't invite Lily Law in to deal with them for you. So the chap at number 42 smacks his wife about. You all know it, but that's life.

And in a village you know the chap who lives at Church End cottage diddles with his daughters. Well, that's what happens. If he diddles with yours he'll get a pitchfork where the sun don't shine. But you won't mess with what don't hurt you.

Things are different now.
I'm not saying these things don't happen any more, and I'm not saying people don't turn a blind eye. But it's not as easily glossed over these days.
And I don't mean to make it all about men vs women - in the times and in the situations I've mentioned, what we would now consider crimes were those in which men believed they owned the women living under their roofs, and used physical strength to get what they wanted. In no way a typical male/ female relationship.

[it]

Actually the talk about physical force brings an interesting point that's relevant to the thread at large I heard made by historian Yoval Harari about patriarchy theory (Which he does generally believes in).

In 8 minutes 32 seconds into the interview:

[xoxoxoBruce]

FOX on women.

[BigV]

I have had a number of links collected for this thread. I want to just unload them here before I lose track of them.

How 7 things that have nothing to do with rape perfectly illustrate the concept of consent

[BigV]

Son, it's ok if you don't get laid tonight.

Hey kid. You’re at an age where I’m pretty sure you’re about to have sex soon, or actually, you might even already be having it and you’re just *that* good at keeping it from me. I don’t really fret over that because I trust you. And because I trust myself and the job I’ve done as your parent all these years.
...
We’ve also talked about rape and about rape culture. I’ve tried to show you how this pervasive attitude exists toward women as objects, or at best, supporting characters in a man’s adventure. And that even though that isn’t your fault and you didn’t make the world that way, allowing yourself to be a passive beneficiary of that dynamic is unacceptable.
...
And yet, the reality is that even with everything I’ve taught you, you are still capable of committing rape. Not because you’re some kind of testosterone-driven monster on the inside, but because you’re at the center of swirling variables and messages.
...

A teaser, really. I liked the whole article. I think you'd like it too.

[Sundae]

Article from the Hate Mail.
Turns out that in two of seven age ranges (only five of which are shown in their graphics) women earn a small percentage more than men. Rising to the heady heights of 1.1% more in the 22-29 age group.

Which wholly justifies the headline

Pay gap? Women earn MORE than men till their 40s: 20-something woman have been paid MORE than men in the same age group over the last decade

Article here (Daily Mail website).

[BigV]

I watched the whole FOX on women video. Urghk..

[DanaC]

That letter was awesome. What I like about it is that it connects the dots. One thing that really strck me with a lot of the surveys and polls that have been done, show that a lot of men, often young men, when presented with the question 'Have you ever raped a girl/woman?' will answer no, but when presented with the question, 'have you ever had sex with a girl/woman who was too drunk to say no?', or 'have you ever continued to have sex after a girl/woman has changed her mind about wanting to?' and even 'have you ever got a girl/woman really drunk in order to have sex with her?' will say yes.

And the role of peer pressure really has to be recognised too. A lot of the cases we see in the news, of young women being raped while passed out or drugged involve groups of lads. I suspect that the individual boys are often not bad lads on their own.

[DanaC]

That Fox video is just so depressing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Don't forget when that lad has a boner, he might encounter a lady... now this is one in a million or more, who fibs.
Not telling him the truth, or being so vague, he'll make the wrong decision.

[Sundae]

... not.

Chrissie made the comments to the Sunday Times Magazine in relation to an incident that happened to her when she was younger.
The star recalled how she crossed paths with members of one of Ohio's leather-clad gangs who promised to take her to a party - but instead took her to an empty house.

Despite that, she says she takes 'full responsibility' for what happened.
She continued: 'Technically speaking, however you want to look at it, this was all my doing and I take full responsibility.
'You can't f*** about with people, especially people who wear "I Heart Rape" and "On Your Knees" badges... those motorcycle gangs, that's what they do.

'You can't paint yourself into a corner and then say whose brush is this? You have to take responsibility. I mean, I was naive...'
When asked whether the gang took advantage of her vulnerability, she replied: 'If you play with fire you get burnt. It's not any secret, is it?'

Hynde went on to say that women who dress provocatively while walking down the street drunk are also to blame if they are attacked.
'If I'm walking around in my underwear and I'm drunk? Who else's fault can it be?'

She explained: 'If I'm walking around and I'm very modestly dressed and I'm keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I'd say that's his fault.
'But if I'm being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who's already unhinged - don't do that. Come on! That's just common sense. You know, if you don't want to entice a rapist, don't wear high heels so you can't run from him.
'If you're wearing something that says 'Come and f*** me', you'd better be good on your feet... I don't think I'm saying anything controversial am I?'

Now I'd like to think that even if I was walking around drunk in my underwear, men would feel protective and get me to safety. Okay, some might "accidentally" cop a feel, but in general they would know I was in some sort of trouble.

And to equate wearing high heels to "putting it about" and "being provocative"! I'd like to think she was misquoted, but it's not just a single sentence.

Leaving your valuables on display in a car is careless and does make robbery more likely. Leaving your ground floor windows open at night (depending on where you live) raises the potential for opportunistic theft. Walking through high crime areas without paying due care and attention/ displaying conspicuous wealth is likely to end badly.

But wearing high heels makes you responsible for being raped?

I wonder if Chrissie Hynde actually bothers to read the news. Knows about grandmothers being raped in their own homes, or women out walking dogs or with their children? Sluts, obviously.

Yes, there are things you can do to lessen your chances of being raped on a night out. Same as the crimes I cited above. But they are common sense (awareness of surroundings, area, company) not her version of it. She was very naive - to the point of stupidity - to choose to go to a party with men wearing I heart rape badges, yes. But being naive and even being stupid are not illegal as far as I know. She should not have had to pay for her actions by being sexually violated.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Sundae

Now I'd like to think that even if I was walking around drunk in my underwear, men would feel protective and get me to safety. Okay, some might "accidentally" cop a feel, but in general they would know I was in some sort of trouble.

That defines the fundamental difference between an adult and an adult who is only a child. A child will take whatever he can especially if he thinks he can get away with it. An adult is required to have ethics. In fact, we should test every adult by having actors walk down the street looking drunk in their underwear - to find the scumbags BEFORE they actually harm America and the world.

If that not the premise of an ABC News show where actors create situations to see what strangers will do? How many are adult enough to 'do the right thing'.

[it]

From where a lot of you guys stand it seems you approach it like a one dimensional dichotomy between traditionalism and feminism, putting a lot of emphasize on small differences and ignoring the core shared principles values and world view they build upon. In the mean time I can't decide what's worst - the fox news sound bite collection or the letter - poison spread thin to a lot of people or poison focused on a few at high dosages.

[BigV]

traceur, are you suggesting the letter I linked to in post #245 is concentrated poison focused on one person?

I hope I misunderstand you, but either way, I'd be interested in hearing you expand on your remark.

[Sundae]

The point of this thread is to point out gender inequality.
It's not about celebrating the fact we're all human and share the same values.
I don't post cat photos in the dog thread.

Also, although most of us know eachother's gender, I don't think many Dwellars react to general posts in a way that reflects that. This forum is pretty much a level playing field in that respect - I think there are more cultural differences here than gender issues. This thread helps to contain and isolate them. Not saying they can be stripped from every day life, where pretty much every Dwellar faces them, but it saves having some of the more off tangent thread drifts.