4/5/2006: Amusement ride in poverty

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

What a strange statement on humanity - that in the midst of this living condition, it's worthwhile to spend a little effort to put together something to entertain the young ones for a few minutes.

You sure can tell who has kids. :-)

No matter what your living conditions, anything that amuses the rugrats long enough for you to rub two brain cells together is worth the effort.

Bronwyn (my co-parent, for the non-old-timers) and I still remeber your question of many years ago, UT: "Who gets the life?"

It's still on-point.

[Undertoad]

We see these kid things as incredibly difficult items that will tend to waste our lives into nothingness. Well, that's how I see it, anyway. You have to give up a large part of your life with a kid; and I guess you're doing it for the kid's sake, but then, why? Why, if all you get is another person who has to give up THEIR life for a kid? What I want to know is, who gets the life?

I was in my late 20s when I wrote that. Not sure it's answered yet.

[MaggieL]

I'll be 54 at the end of the month...no answer yet here either. :-) And Robin will be 24 on July 4th. :-)

[Jacquelita]

"You have to give up a large part of your life with a kid; and I guess you're doing it for the kid's sake, but then, why? Why, if all you get is another person who has to give up THEIR life for a kid? What I want to know is, who gets the life?"

You don't "give up" your life for a kid. Do your priorities shift? Absolutely. Do you set some things aside because of this? probably. But the real truth is that you gain much much more than you ever could possibly give up.

Even speaking as a single mom, (a hard row to hoe many many nights!) I can say that without my kids I'm almost frightened to think of the kind of person I would have been. My children have given me a purpose in life, and motivation to be a better human. My children have opened up a well of love in me that I never would have known otherwise.

Without my kids, I would never know what it means to completely put someone else's well being before mine - without reservation. My children have given me an amazing amount of joy just watching them grow into sentient beings who actually have their own voice, their own ideas and opinions.

Its inexplicable to those who don't have kids. This is why I become annoyed at childless people who think their pets are their children. For the most part, animals will love whoever is feeding them. Pets are great - and wonderful companions - but children are work. You put your entire self into them, and many times on a daily basis get headaches and heartaches in return. The truth is however, that the headaches and heartaches pale in comparison to the fulfillment - the shear joy that comes to you through your children.

Despite the day to day turmoil we face as parents, having children enables us to know something greater than ourselves, and as a result our lives are expanded in ways we cannot even begin to fathom. And it never stops. Give up my life? No way - I have a much richer and more fulfilled life because of my children.

[Undertoad]

Ah but J you see it differently because you are so full of love.

[capnhowdy]

...wipes eyes gently with Kleenex..... ponders on current situation.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

"Who gets the life?"

I'll guess the tone and inflection here and suggest that the answer should be someone other than the questioner. Someone who has to ask that question is looking for the answer "Me, I hope." implying that the one with the primary kid care responsibilities doesn't get "the life". I would contend that the questioner doesn't get "it", as my life is filled (in all the good ways) with my kids.

I would ask that question, but in a way that permits sharing of the life, not either/or.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by BigV

I'll guess the tone and inflection here and suggest that the answer should be someone other than the questioner.

Well part of the backstory here is that I have two kids...and I believe UT still doesn't have any. This is a topic that's been batted around here before.

Let me say clearly: I don't regret having had kids at all...even though the situation considereing what happened in *my* life about a decade after they were born has made things....interesting to say the least.

But anyone who hasn't had to juggle their own needs against their kids' and wondered where the balance is just isn't paying attention. But I (and Bronwyn too, at least at the time) understood perfectly where UT was coming from.

I will add that both the nature and amount of kids' needs shifts dramatically as they get older. Also that I beleive an ability to insist that your own needs (quiet, intimacy, respect, even sleep) sometimes take priority over your kids desires is necessary to raising polite, considerate offspring.

Another aspect to this story is that the last of my retirement savings just went largely to putting daughter #1 through college while I was unemployed. #2 starts at Pitt in August...good thing I found a job or she wouldn't be getting any help from me; not because I would have been unwilling but because I would have been unable. At times like these when I recall my own parents telling me I'd better get scholarships, because they had little to contribute (Dad was a clergyman), that "who gets the life" question does resonate a bit. -)

[xoxoxoBruce]

I gave up the idea of kids when my mother wished I have some just like me.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Jacquelita

I can say that without my kids I'm almost frightened to think of the kind of person I would have been. My children have given me a purpose in life...

Yikes...that *is* frightening. What would you have done if you found out you were sterile?

Originally Posted by Jacquelita

Without my kids, I would never know what it means to completely put someone else's well being before mine - without reservation.

Some folks would say that's what marriage is about.

Originally Posted by Jacquelita

My children have given me an amazing amount of joy just watching them grow into sentient beings who actually have their own voice, their own ideas and opinions.

Yeah, I'll second *that* emotion. Getting to the point where I recognize my daughters as adults in their own right (well, the 18-yo has a ways to go yet, but then in some ways the 23-yo had a long road ahead too :-) ) is one of the truly awe-inspiring and magical things about parenthood.

Originally Posted by Jacquelita

This is why I become annoyed at childless people who think their pets are their children.

Second that one too. Don't tell *me* your cat is your kid...you have no clue...

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I gave up the idea of kids when my mother wished I have some just like me.

I still have video of the older daughter at about age four wearing t-shirt that says, simply: "Grandmom's Revenge". :-)

[Jacquelita]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Yikes...that *is* frightening. What would you have done if you found out you were sterile?

I guess the point that I was trying to make here is that I probably would've been much more self-centered and immature without the kids coming along. I think it would've taken me a lot longer to learn some pretty basic but important things about priorities. Also - being the primary caretaker for the two kids has forced me to be more independent - I have learned to appreciate that I am much stronger and smarter than I would've ever given myself credit for 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Some folks would say that's what marriage is about.

I disagree. I believe that marriage is a partnership. A union of "equals". Meaning that each person bears equal responsibility and respect. I would never put my partner above me - nor would I ever put them below me. They must walk beside me to share the joy and the burdens of life.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Unless there's landmines.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Jacquelita

I guess the point that I was trying to make here is that I probably would've been much more self-centered and immature without the kids coming along.

Another family saying was "Raising kids is the only game for grown-ups"...part of the point being that nothing will mature your ass like raising kids...successfully.

Of course, anybody can do it wrong...and the evidence of that is down in Philly selling crack and shooting cops.

Originally Posted by Jacquelita

I disagree. I believe that marriage is a partnership. A union of "equals"

Well, I did say "some people would say...". :-) Learning to draw proper boundaries took me a *long* time...and I had some serious personal issues I had to resolve first.