World Apologies

[slang]

Dear SEB,

I am sorry that we did not prepare and use more nuku-lar bombs at the end of WWII for more of you.

I am sorry you do not feel the peace and security of Jesus while taking over other hostile countries preparing to do us harm.

I am truly sorry that there isnt a way to split America into two separate countries, along with the people representing the "urban" vs "rural" philosophies.

And most of all, I am sorry that I do not have a full beer chaser with a full bottle of Southern Comfort directly in front of me at this time.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by alphageek31337

Why not make the effort to get as much of the world on our side as possible?

So many Americans think that we're invincible, ass-kickin' and the only worthwhile country on the planet that we can (and should) go it alone. It makes me very, very nervous.

[Happy Monkey]

It's an astounding combination. A massive "go it alone" foreign policy push at the same time as a massive outsourcing of real production to foreign nations and a massive escalation of foreign debt. Our economy is on a house of cards, and Bush wants to play the big bad lone wolf.

[flippant]

Originally Posted by slang

Dear SEB,

I am sorry that we did not prepare and use more nuku-lar bombs at the end of WWII for more of you.

I am sorry you do not feel the peace and security of Jesus while taking over other hostile countries preparing to do us harm.

I am truly sorry that there isnt a way to split America into two separate countries, along with the people representing the "urban" vs "rural" philosophies.

And most of all, I am sorry that I do not have a full beer chaser with a full bottle of Southern Comfort directly in front of me at this time.

Precisely. I would clap if I weren't typing with one hand and wishing for a drink to fill the other...... 'sides drinkin' is cheaper than leaving North America....I call it the alcohol induced frontal lobotomy.

[FloridaDragon]

Originally Posted by garnet

So many Americans think that we're invincible, ass-kickin' and the only worthwhile country on the planet that we can (and should) go it alone. It makes me very, very nervous.

I agree we can't think of ourselves in that extreme of a view but if we go the other extreme then we would still be trying to get UN approval just to use harsh language with Saddam in 20 years, meanwhile who knows what damage he could cause worldwide and how many of his own people he could gas.
Its all about compromise.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

Its all about compromise.

Yes it is--and Mr. Bush chose not to compromise. He wanted to invade Iraq, and was willing to do so regardless of what the UN, many of our allies, and millions of American citizens thought. He didn't compromise one iota.

[jaguar]

Well the opinion of the global intel community seems to be now quite clearly that Saddam was fairly harmless, unless of course you were an Iraqi but don't try and tell me the US doesn't like despotic regimes that kill and toture, it creates more of them than anyone else - including Saddam.

[FloridaDragon]

but how long do you wait on the UN ? He did wait years ... I am not trying to say I agree with what has happened over there but it is not like he went to the UN on Monday, asked for a resolution, didn't get it, and then on Tuesday he declared war...if you go through all the resolutions and the failures of those agreements (especially the ones dealing with inspections) it is my *humble* opinion that they waited long enough...Saddam was stalling and you had to question his motives.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

Saddam was stalling and you had to question his motives.

Saddam said "we have no WMDs." And he was telling the truth.

How was he supposed to prove that he had no WMDs? How do you prove a negative? Each time the inspectors went into a facility and looked, they found no WMDs. Bush took this as evidence that he was hiding WMDs. Of course, if they found WMDs, Bush would also take that as evidence that they existed. Either way, Saddam was screwed.

Saddam didn't like the foreign weapons inspectors poking around HIS palaces, so he made it hard on them by making them wait a few hours before opening the gates to the buildings they wanted to see. Sure, he could have cooperated more, and maybe in hindsight he wishes that he had. But he did let the inspectors inspect even if his pride made him a little stubborn about it.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

but how long do you wait on the UN ? He did wait years ... I am not trying to say I agree with what has happened over there but it is not like he went to the UN on Monday, asked for a resolution, didn't get it, and then on Tuesday he declared war...if you go through all the resolutions and the failures of those agreements (especially the ones dealing with inspections) it is my *humble* opinion that they waited long enough...Saddam was stalling and you had to question his motives.

So because he didn't get his way from the UN lickety split, it's OK for him to do whatever he wants? It doesn't matter how long he waited; he didn't have the support of the UN, and for good reason. There was no compromise on anything from his end. He didn't care what anybody else thought and he did what he wanted. Plain and simple.

As for Saddam's "motives," it's pretty clear the guy was on an ego trip and just wanted to stay in power. It seems like his ego was his motivation for a lot of things.

Originally Posted by Beestie

Mari, - that's the problem. Bush supporters didn't choose Bush to flip off the planet. We voted for the president of the US not the US ambassador to planet earth.

The problem is that Bush supporters can't understand what a slap in the face his re-election feels to the rest of the world. The US IS the biggest kid on the block at the moment. Our actions impact everyone else. Bush has shown even our allies the back of his hand, and, as someone else commented, a complete refusal to compromise with our friends in the EU or anywhere else.

Originally Posted by Beestie

Had Bush lost, Kerry would enjoy my full support and I sure as heck wouldn't apologise to anyone on behalf of Kerry supporters.

No, you wouldn't have to apologize to anybody.

Originally Posted by Beestie

We are America and we are Americans, dammit!

Before anything, we are human beings sharing a small, finite planet with other human beings. We'd better start learning how to respect one another and understand each other's point of view. Being American doesn't give us the right to do anything we please, anywhere in the world and expect every other nation to sit on its hands while uttering a stream of praise and compliments for our actions.

[FloridaDragon]

there were also several times when Saddam stopped all inspections for months on end, he also stalled inspections on facilities for weeks, meanwhile lines of trucks arrived, packed up something (we guess) and drove away.... kinda strikes you as someone who had something to hide.

WMD or not, he was an evil piece of crap who belonged in a jail cell (fon't think you can argue that point).

And have you seen the picture of the MIG-29 that they found out in the desert?...if they can successfully hide a fighter jet, don't you think they could hide other things as well?

garnet, "lickety split"? So the question is how long do you wait? The UN was going to be held up for a long time on Iraq simply due to money, France, Germany and Russia simply had too many contracts in place in Iraq to lose so they would never have voted to go. Not saying we would have been any different if it had been our contracts at stake.

[flippant]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Before anything, we are human beings sharing a small, finite planet with other human beings. We'd better start learning how to respect one another and understand each other's point of view. Being American doesn't give us the right to do anything we please, anywhere in the world and expect every other nation to sit on its hands while uttering a stream of praise and compliments for our actions.

I don't have anything to say, I just like this.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

WMD or not, he was an evil piece of crap who belonged in a jail cell (fon't think you can argue that point).

I agree Saddam's a really bad guy, but there's a lot of people in other countries out there who think GWB is an "evil piece of crap" who belongs in a jail cell, too. Should they invade us without the support of the UN, too? It's all a matter of perspective.

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

So the question is how long do you wait?

He should have waited FOREVER and never invaded Iraq, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

France, Germany and Russia simply had too many contracts in place in Iraq to lose so they would never have voted to go.

Not to mention the fact that those countries simply didn't believe that full-scale WAR was necessary or justified...

[glatt]

So you think there are hiddn WMDs somewhere in the desert? Bush himself has admitted that there were no WMDs after all.

No. Sadam was not a nice guy. But the Iraqis were better off under Saddam than under the US, and the US was better off before it invaded. This war was a bad idea all around.

Bush had a hard-on for Saddam and didn't listen to ANYONE who got between him and his prey. He alientated the world, and half his country. Our friends and allies were trying to save us from making a terrible mistake, and the Bush admin insulted them by calling them a bunch "chocolate making countries" and referring to the "freedom fries," etc.

I'm reminded of a mean drunk trying to leave a bar at the end of the night and fighting with his friends who try to take his car keys away from him. That's Bush in a nutshell.