Have we become used to or immune to mass shootings?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Here's an excellent thread on mass shootings.

[Undertoad]

It is excellent.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Here's part of the problem, when you're childish and are only driven by emotion you see ordinary hunting rifle, to scary looking military assault rifle people killer.
But the fact is every one of them is a bolt action Remington 700 rifle.
Every. Fucking. One.

[Clodfobble]

Baloney. The problem is not that the childish and emotional see something like that on the store wall and get scared. The problem is that real assault rifles are in circulation, and being used to slaughter people. When the actual murder machines are banned, then we can talk about what to do with the little ol' guns that never hurt a fly.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Real assault rifles are very illegal and extremely expensive. None of the examples above are assault rifles, but the perception of the masses reacting to the appearance means there can be no dialog.

[glatt]

The masses are afraid of the scary looking ones, and the nut jobs are attracted to the scary looking ones. The scary looking ones are only marketed because they have an emotional impact on everyone. Good guy or bad. If you get rid of the scary looking ones, will the bad guys want to get a farmer's wood stock gun to do their terrorizing?

[tw]

This was discussed in detail here about 15 years ago (maybe longer). Facts stated then are now well proven. As number of guns increases, violent gun deaths increase massively. It has been a fact all over the world for hundreds of years. Assault weapons have increased massively in the past twenty years. We have not yet even begun to accept reality. We have seen exactly what was predicted here 15 years ago. And still some continue to deny - emotionally.

How ironic. Since owning and carrying a bigger gun does change a person's emotions. They become more entitled. And suddenly feel righteous authority. A gun changes a person's attitude.

How many guns were available in the old west? Lies (myths, fiction, hearsay, speculation, westerns) assumed everyone out west had and needed a gun. Reality. Research confirms that among maybe 15 wagons might be only three or four guns. As was so obvious even 15 years ago, a gun cost about one or two year's wages. Back then, 'automobile type' finance plan did not exist. Pioneers had to plan in advance who would first fire so that the few others with guns still had a loaded gun.

Only two places made all guns - Harper's Ferry and Springfield MA.. Guns were never the magic tool that we have all been told must have existed. Myths and fears of today did not exist back then. The west was not as dangerous as the emotional are told to believe today.

Same fears and emotions now justify assault weapons for protection. Include what we have all learned from the news. Defense with a handgun is almost useless against assault weapons with large clips. Virtually impossible. As was demonstrated by an armed guard in Columbine and in Kentucky. As demonstrated by hundreds of police trying to stop two bank robbers in LA. As demonstrated by the actions of Sheriff deputies recently in FL.

Only the emotional and ignorant think fortifying schools will help. We know it is stupid because the Donald also recommended it. Fortifying only works when same hardware fortifies every mall, post office, every airport and train station, etc. Did extremists forget to mention that? Of course. This problem is only created by too many weapons sold to wackos who need high velocity projectiles fed by large clips. Since that makes them even feel better. Projectiles that only have one purpose - murder on a mass scale. Guns that make even armed deputies think twice before confronting them.

Did an LA bank robbery not yet make that obvious to everyone? So how many still did not learn that - instead listen to a wacko president promoting lies and more gun sales. Assault rifles mean even police can only be victims - not be protection.

Instead of teaching kids, we must put diminishing school budgets (diminishing thanks to the same extremists who need military and more civilians with guns) into fortifying schools. Only armed resource officer that can provide any protection must constantly wear helmets, body armour, and M-15 assault rifles with large clips. We must have SWAT in every school - according to extremists. And stop putting money into education. Since education only creates moderates.

The NRA is a lobby to increase gun manufacturer profits. Of course the NRA advocated more guns, more body armor, and education money diverted into highly armed guards at every school. That increases profits. We must leave shoppers, drivers, homes, and commuters unprotected so that more assault weapons can be sold.

Only one problem exists. We have hundreds of thousands of assault rifles everywhere in America. Even an old west was never as dangerous as the NRA now wants America to be. We cannot even do research into gun violence since that will also reduce sales and profits. Research into gun violence was banned because of what the early research discovered.

NRA was never about protecting people. Their myth is to increase profits. NRA even got customers to pay (dues) for promoting those companies. Purpose of the NRA is - profits. Promoting lies and fears - and more assault rifles - means everyone must now waste money on guns. Less educated kids means more extremists who can be manipulate by NRA propaganda.

If assault rifles are needed, then so are M-60 grenade launchers and 155 mm howitzers. Both are needed for the exact same reason (myth). Profits.

[sexobon]

Worst case of hoplophobia I ever saw.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

This was discussed in detail here about 15 years ago (maybe longer). Facts stated then are now well proven. As number of guns increases, violent gun deaths increase massively. It has been a fact all over the world for hundreds of years. Assault weapons have increased massively in the past twenty years.

Whoops, lost your credibility right there.

[Glinda]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Worst case of hoplophobia I ever saw.

Worst attempt at honest debate I ever saw. *shrug*

[Glinda]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Whoops, lost your credibility right there.

In point of fact, we don't have any idea how many assault-type weapons are out there,

Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. – by design

but I think it's a safe bet to say there are many more today than there were 20 years ago.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Glinda

Worst attempt at honest debate I ever saw. *shrug*

It's previously been debated here several times. The outcome was that Trump got elected. This latest iteration is more for entertainment.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Glinda

In point of fact, we don't have any idea how many assault-type weapons are out there,

Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. – by design

but I think it's a safe bet to say there are many more today than there were 20 years ago.

Don't put any of your hard earned money on that bet... you'd lose it.
Assault rifles and any other automatic weapons (read machine guns), have been illegal since the '30s, without a government license that involves a background check and costs hundreds of dollars a year.

I'm totally on board with regulation, total ban on automatics and background checks at gun shows. But berating the AR-15 or any other rifle that looks scary is tilting at windmills. Even if successful would do no good.

[Glinda]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Don't put any of your hard earned money on that bet... you'd lose it.

Oh, I strongly doubt that.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Assault rifles and any other automatic weapons (read machine guns), have been illegal since the '30s, without a government license that involves a background check and costs hundreds of dollars a year.

From my link:

The only figures available that give even a hint of how many assault rifles may exist in the U.S. is manufacturer data. ATF publishes annual reports on the number of pistols, rifles, revolvers and shotguns manufactured and distributed in the U.S., but none of those categories are broken down more specifically, and there’s no way of knowing how many were actually sold to individuals.

Still, while limited, that data would seem to indicate the popularity of rifles and pistols has exploded in the past decade — manufacturing of guns in both categories has more than doubled. In 2007, 1.6 million rifles were made and distributed in the U.S., while by 2016 the number was up to 4.2 million.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'm totally on board with regulation, total ban on automatics and background checks at gun shows. But berating the AR-15 or any other rifle that looks scary is tilting at windmills. Even if successful would do no good.

I've not berated the AR-15 or any other rifle that "looks scary."

You know, I'm no gun hater. I've got a loaded Mossberg next to my front door (purchased specifically and solely to protect my chickens). But there are VERY effective solutions to the rampant gun problem we have here in the US (eg. UK, Australia). We just don't want to go there. We're little more than pussies that need our big bad weapons to keep our peckers up, to the tune of 33,000 dead people (and another 75,000 non-fatal gun injuries) per year.

Is it worth it? Is it really? Speaking just for myself, I say no.

[Glinda]

Originally Posted by sexobon

It's previously been debated here several times. The outcome was that Trump got elected.

Gun debates on this website resulted in Trump being elected? What?

Call me crazy, but I don't think being a jerk in the aftermath of yet another mass shooting is much of a solution.

Originally Posted by sexobon

This latest iteration is more for entertainment.

You find the citizenry's distress over another pile of bodies filled with bullets "entertaining?"

Wow.