What car should I buy?

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by jimhelm

In a 4x4, low end torque is more important than horses, in my opinion.

Absolutely. Low end torque is the whole point of 4x4.

My $.02 recommendation for Lola would be a Toyota. Their reliability, ease of maintenance, longevity, and ability to hold Blue Book value make them my favorite cars. Budget and personal philosophy would determine the choice, whether a Prius, a Tercel or Camry, one of their SUVs ... buyer's choice.

We own a Hyundai Sonata that is also a fantastic car and very reasonable to maintain. I don't know anything about the rest of the Hyundai line. But my favorite car so far has been my 2005 4Runner.

[Big Sarge]

I think a Hyundai product might be an excellent choice when you consider their warranty. I understand Kia has extended warranties also.

I made the statement that the V8 is the way to go. I have owned V8s most of my life for the power/pulling capabilities. However to be truthful, I haven't owned a V8 in almost 2 years. I have a 4 cylinder Geo Tracker to use as a "mini-jeep" and my M35A2 with an inline 6 cylinder multifuel engine as a work horse.

I prefer an all wheel drive option. To me, they greatly improve handling in rain or mud. We don't get much snow here.

One final point, there were WMDs recovered in Iraq. No yellow cake, but we did find mustard gas in my AO. This is open source. I know of 2 soldiers in the Iskan area received minor burns from a mustard gas exposure.

[tw]

Originally Posted by sexobon

My '86 Ford Crown Vic LX with 302 cu. in. ("5.0 L" - 4,942 cc) Windsor was the first year they put a sequential fire electronic fuel injector on each cylinder in the Crown Vic and I had it for 21 years.

Correct. The fuel injected version (which was finally implemented due to government regulations) increased that 351 Windsor to 200 Hp. But mid 1980 trucks (and SUVs) and the Mustang still got the obsolete technology engine.

BTW, the first 1986 Ford fuel injection was throttle body. I never heard of Fords with sequential that early.

Ford 351 was popular with police. Because an equivalent engine, transmission, and other parts in Chevy Caprices failed so often. One police department had a pool on which Caprice transmission would fail next. It was not that the 351 was so good. It was that the other domestic automakers were so bad.

[Nirvana]

My 351 sure has longevity

Anyhooey TW if you can help me troubleshoot my 3414 hydrostatic loader tractor's transmission pressure problem, {Low (All Gears)} I would be extremely grateful.

[tw]

Originally Posted by jimhelm

I think you've missed my point about 4wd, too. I posted the video about jeep because you said they use expensive computer systems to control them. They don't. The Subaru video was to highlight the difference between actual 4wd vs all wheel drive.

I understood that. And then noted were many versions of four wheel drive. Different names are created to describe variations of what is still only four wheel drive. With and without expensive computers. How it works is defined by how tightly wheels are interlocked. An expensive computer system is necessary to reduce four wheel drive crashes (ie stability control, etc) when wheels are tightly interlocked. But the tradeoff remains even with that computer system.

If a four wheel drive can get you moving, then it also seriously decreases safety at speed. To increase safety on four wheel drive vehicles (so that the vehicle crashes into guard rails less often), then four wheel drive is less robust at getting unstuck. To increase safety, interlocking is reduced to the point that it sometimes does not work well on shear ice - as the video demonstrates.

As you admit and what I said repeatedly, the Jeep is not purchased for logical reasons. The Jeep is designed to make you feel (emotionally) superior. Why is it so high with poor ground clearance? Why does it hype four wheel drive? Almost no Jeep owners need it or use it. FWD makes Jeep a more dangerous vehicle in inclement weather and at speed. It makes many feel superior and cool. Jeep is a lesser vehicle with a massive profit margin. It sold on emotion; not on vehicle quality, safety, or innovation.

Every Jeep model has appeared in Consumer Report's "Used cars to avoid" list. Their safety abilities (including accident avoidance) is often marginal or among the worst. History defined reliability as poor. So yes, Jeeps clearly violate Lola Bunny's requirements. Jeeps do not sell on quality, safety, reliability, or innovation. They sell on image.

Torque is a sales gimmick. Anyone can see through that myth using high school physics. Torque (that matters) is defined by gear ratios. Even a mechanical clock can create as much torque as a car by changing gear ratios. What is the difference between a clock and a Jeep with same torque? The clock moves slower due to less horsepower. Horsepower (not torque) is the relevant parameter.

That physics formula is simple. Torque times speed equals horsepower. Any drivetrain can create the same torque. Only horsepower is relevant. Since domestic engines were so crappy (so low performance), then spin doctors (advertising) invented the torque myth. Hoping naïve consumers would believe it and buy obsolete technology V-8 engines. If torque is so important, then why are V-8s no longer found on Indy and Formula One race tracks? Torque myth only exists when high school physics is ignored or forgotten. A torque myth exists to divert attention from what is relevant: performance (Hp/liter).

Hyundai has competitive products due to major changes that occurred in Korea somewhere around the early 1990s. A major overthrow of top government and corporate leaders (chaebols) occurred across the entire nation. As a result, stoic and staid management was replaced by innovators. Some of the world's best steel now comes from Korea. The world's most technically advanced ships are built in Korea which also has the world's largest and most profitable shipyards. LG and Samsung make world class appliances. So good that companies such as Panasonic and Sony are abandoning markets including TVs or semiconductors. Hyundai best accomplishments are in both cars and ships.

Over the past six years, Hyundai still does not have quality numbers found in Honda and Toyota. But Hyundai has a best improved product line in the past 20 years. It takes decades (as the above Ford story demonstrates). One need only view Consumer Report's "Used cars to avoid" list to see the difference. Every Jeep and every Chevy model (except the Volt) at some point appears on that list of the 15% worst products. Almost no Hyundais are listed. Hyundai products are that significant.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Anyhooey TW if you can help me troubleshoot my 3414 hydrostatic loader tractor's transmission pressure problem, {Low (All Gears)} I would be extremely grateful.

First suggestion for a transmission is to drain its fluid and replace the filter. Any parts or debris in the filter defines how serious the problem is.

Transmissions are an art. Engines are typically simpler. However you can do what so many entertained consumers have done. Call Click and Clack - the Tappet brothers. Tom and Ray have a call in show on NPR every weekend called "Car Talk" - sometimes at 10 AM in some regions. They love solving problems such as yours. And if not, we will be entertained while they try to wiggle around your problem.

If the problem is particularly interesting, then become their contestant months later on "Stump the Chumps".

Important is to practice duplicating each noise coming from that transmission. Since we will want to hear it on our radios to appreciate your problem.

[Undertoad]

Tom and Ray are retired and no new "Car Talk"s have been made since October 2012.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

No yellow cake, but we did find mustard gas in my AO.

Effects from mustard gas can take many hours. How did one discover that chemical since exposure does not create immediate symptoms? What is the first aid for Mustard gas?

[Lamplighter]

...LG and Samsung make world class appliances....

Samsung, OK. LG, not so much.

[Undertoad]

Let me Google that for you

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=15918

The WMD found was not considered serious enough to warrant invasion at the time. This mustard gas "doesn't count".

[Nirvana]

TW I am already past those elementary suggestions.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Good lord, so much wrong, backwards, and completely without basis, I'm not going to even bother, because it doesn't affect Lola.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by tw

... BTW, the first 1986 Ford fuel injection was throttle body. I never heard of Fords with sequential that early ....

You have now:

...Under the hood, the 122 hp 4.2L V8 from 1981-1982 was discontinued. Electronic "Central Fuel Injection" (CFI), a type of Throttle Body Injection, was now standard on the 5.0L V8 engine. ... In 1986, on all civilian models, this was replaced by "Sequential Fire" electronic fuel injection, based on Ford's OBD-1 compliant EEC-IV computer. The new engine featured better driveability in traffic than the CFI unit, ...

... As the 1980s progressed, the LTD Crown Victoria underwent many gradual changes. 1983 saw the introduction of central fuel injection (CFI) on the 302 cu in (5.0L) models (identifiable by a fender badge reading "Electronic Fuel Injection"), which was replaced with sequential electronic fuel injection (SEFI) in 1986 (accompanied by the deletion of said fender badge). ...

... Twisting the model lineup for 1986, the LTD Crown Victoria was now available as an "LX" model at the top of the range to create the indecently long and awkward name "LTD Crown Victoria LX." A new sequential fuel-injection system improved the performance of the 302 V8, which was now rated at 150 horsepower. ...

... sequential multiport injection for 150 horsepower (versus 140), premium LX series added (1986); ...

My '86 Ford Crown Vic LX with 302 cu. in. ("5.0 L" - 4,942 cc) Windsor was the first year they put a sequential fire electronic fuel injector on each cylinder in the Crown Vic ...

That last reference was written by some guy who actually owned one, go figure. The potential list of references goes on and on ... I guess we learn something new everyday ... just sayin'.

[Undertoad]

BOLD MINE:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ath-rates.html

Drivers of sport-utility vehicles, who used to be the most likely to die in crashes because of rollovers, are now among those with the highest probability of survival, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety said in a report released today.

"The rollover risk in SUVs used to outweigh their size/weight advantage, but that’s no longer the case," Anne McCartt, the Arlington, Virginia-based group’s senior vice president for research, said in the report on driver death rates for passenger vehicles from model years 2005 to 2008.

None of the 26 lowest-rated vehicles had standard electronic stability control, while almost all of the top-rated ones did, the study found. Models equipped with the technology, which can automatically apply brakes or reduce throttle speed when drivers over- or under-steer, had lower death rates than those without it.

Another tw canon falls... or should I say, rolls over.

[lumberjim]

tw,

People do make decisions in their lives based upon what you might call emotional reaction. I had a customer the other day that chose to take the 0% loan over the $2500 rebate, even though I very clearly explained to him that it would cost him $240 more over the course of the loan. He understood. He saw that at the preferred rate of 3.24%, the total finance charge was $2260.
He just felt better knowing that he had ZERO interest. I think that was the wrong choice. I asked him if he felt it was worth $240 just to have the 0%. He said yes. So I wrote the loan his way.

He defines his satisfaction. Not me.

I love love love my Jeep. You can read all the reports you want, and you can call me childish and immature all you want. I get in my jeep every day and enjoy driving. I very rarely use it to it's potential. I have never done the Rubicon trail. ... probably never will. But I can't even count the number of times people have come up to me and told me how cool my Jeep looks. That's part of it. People DO identify with their vehicles. Lola will want to love her car, whichever one she chooses. For you, making the best choice is about numbers and ratios. Well God bless, man. Whatever blows your skirt up. Just maybe try to respect other people. Don't be quite such a condescending asshole all the time.

If you want people to hear you, you have to get them to listen first. When they think you're crazy, or hate you because you belittle them, you have no chance of getting past their walls.

That's some free advice on life. Just for you, from me.

Sin freaking cerely,

Your pal,

Lumberjim