The 'What the fuck!' thread

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by glatt

"Three square meals a day." Who still describes a meal as being square? What is this, 1950? Does that saying come from the 4 food groups? That's a way of thinking about foods we haven't used in decades.

It's a phrase still used here and I've always been under the impression that it was of British origin, thus:

It is frequently repeated, by tour guides and the like, that the expression 'a square meal' originated from the Royal Navy practice of serving meals on square wooden plates. Such plates did exist so that is a plausible story, but there's no other evidence to support it. In fact, the lateness of the first printed record (see below) pretty well rules this out as a credible theory. The Royal Navy's records and many thousands of ship's logs are still available and, if the phrase came from that source, it would surely have been recorded before the mid-19th century.

This 'square plate' theory is one of the best-known examples of folk-etymology. The phrase exists, the square plates exist, and two and two make five. To be more precise, what we have here is a back-formation. Someone hears the phrase 'square meal' and then invents a plausible story to fit it.

No, it's not one of ours, it turns out it's one of yours.

The phrase is of US origin. All the early citations are from America, including this, the earliest print reference I have found - an advertisement for the Hope and Neptune restaurant, in the California newspaper The Mountain Democrat, November 1856:

"We can promise all who patronize us that they can always get a hearty welcome and 'square meal' at the 'Hope and Neptune. Oyster, chicken and game suppers prepared at short notice."

William Brohaugh, in the usually reliable 'English Through the Ages', dates the saying as having entered the language in 1840, although no supporting evidence is provided. There certainly was a spate of coinages of 'food words' in the USA around that date.

Oh well, that's another illusion shattered.

That's four this week and its only Tuesday.

Link

[Happy Monkey]

Not to discourage more investment in education, but children who are wards of the state get some of those boxes checked.

[Glinda]

Originally Posted by glatt

I got a tour of our local jail a few years ago and saw the lunch that was being prepared. It did not look yummy or nearly enough to feed me. A dismal looking hot dog without a bun, a slice of crappy white wonder style bread, a big scoop of canned baked beans, and I think one of the plastic half cups of orange juice with the foil lid. Nothing green. No vegetables. No fruit.

Well, you know, jail isn't supposed to be pleasant. I'd be pretty pissed off to learn that criminals were eating better than millions of poor families across the country.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Glinda

Well, you know, jail isn't supposed to be pleasant.

It isn't.

I didn't get three squares a day. We got a powdered egg, a strip of not-quite-bacon, or sometimes a piece of rubber sausage, a canned biscuit and a cup of coffee (don't drink coffee, fuck you, you drink water) for breakfast, lunch was either a peanut butter, or baloney sandwich and a coffee cup of orange Kool-Aid. Supper was basically a high school lunch, with a coffee cup of orange Kool-Aid. On Sundays ya got the supper at lunch time with a chunk of orange Jell-O, and the sammich at supper time. With a coffee cup of orange Kool-Aid.

I don't drink orange Kool-Aid, and I don't eat orange Jell-O, and I don't eat baloney. 183 days in a row was enough of that shit.

[Gravdigr]

Hell, that ain't even three hots and a cot!

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Glinda

Well, you know, jail isn't supposed to be pleasant. I'd be pretty pissed off to learn that criminals were eating better than millions of poor families across the country.

Surely the answer to that is to improve the lot of poor families rather than reduce the lot of prisoners?

The horrifying thing there is not that criminals might eat better than poor families, but that poor families may be eating as badly as prisoners.


Many of the people who end up in prison for any real length of time are young men who already place a very low value on themselves and others. Done right, prison can teach two very important lessons: first, what you did makes you unwelcome in society and second, that you as an individual can become valuable.

Many of those in prison also suffer mental health problems - probably most. If that aspect is not dealt with then why would they not return to criminal behaviour when they are released? You can't tackle mental health without basic stuff like decent nutrition and a way to build a healthier sense of self-worth

[DanaC]

Additional thought: why do we want prisons to be some kind of hell? Do we value our freedom so lightly, that the loss of that alone seems a trivial punishment?

Prison is the fundamental loss, temporarily for most, of personal autonomy. Coupled with absolute and enforced stasis. The door stays closed unless someone else opens it; it stays open unless someone else closes. The time the light goes on and off, the time to shower, the time to eat, what you eat and how often you eat, who you see, when and how often you see them, how many toilet rolls you get to use, how often your hair is cut, whether you can see a doctor, what books you are allowed to read.

And all in the context of a profoundly dangerous community, equally bored and ready to impose themselves on others.

I had a couple of friend years ago (I probably mentioned them on here before). Nutty Paul and Little Pete. I recall a conversation with them that has stayed with me ever since. They were sharing stories of their various prison stints and they both talked about the way that first night after sentencing hits you when you are sent down. When the door closes and the lights go out. They talked about being able to hear some guys crying, a few really freaking out with a kind of claustrophobia.

Paul was without a shadow of a doubt the hardest and most dangerous individual I have ever met. He was a good mate, and in the right mood he was brilliant company, but he could be a fucking animal. And he said he cried the first night, the first time he was sent down for real (rather than the in and out of the juvenile system).

You don't need to make prison hell. Trapped in one place with several thousand other troubled or dangerous people and held in check by a system deliberately and consciously designed to remove your individuality, for years, is its own hell.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Additional thought: why do we want prisons to be some kind of hell?

So ya wanna stay the hell outta there!!!! Same reason they bugger ya and beat the shit outta ya!

[Gravdigr]

And not necessarily in that order!

[Clodfobble]

However, much like buggering and beating the shit out of a child, empirical evidence shows that it doesn't have the intended effect.

[captainhook455]

I stayed at the Atlantic Co. Hilton in NJ for 3 days. We didn't have a breakfast. For lunch I had an ice cream scoop of cut potatoes. Burnt on the bottom and raw on top, had to eat the middle. The meat was a salisbury pattie with no gravy. It was cooked like the taters. I had a salad though. One big leaf of lettuce and slice of tomato. No dressing or salt. This was also supper. Had this for all meals for 3 days.

I didn't get buggered spent one day walking around in a big room with others. I did see through a cell window one guy sucking another. They stuck me in a cell with a stainless steel toilet with no lid. A fiberglass bunk bed, had no mattress. I had a bunch of holes in my blanket. No sheet or pillow. A fellow came in the 3rd day he just had a sheet. I traded him my blanket for the sheet when I was released. Never did get a shower. Once I was in there I didn't get out.

My parents came and bailed me out. I was so embarrassed I couldn't look at them. The bail was 10k. My father said he would never bail my brother and me, but he did. I love that man so much and miss him terribly.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

However, much like buggering and beating the shit out of a child, empirical evidence shows that it doesn't have the intended effect.

It does, but, only on people with self respect.<--See above post (#12387).

[Happy Monkey]

Which conflicts with their strategy of eliminating prisoners' self respect.

[Gravdigr]

Howyathrowitnow?!



You know what they say: If there wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be a rule.



...da fuq?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Canadian refiner...