[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

Being a tangible reality does not mean you can be born without them. How can you be born into a planet without gravity? You can't. The same is true of rights. You are born with them and can't be born without them.

You can go to into deep space where gravity is at a minimum and attempt to give birth but you can never give birth to someone without human’s rights. One is a physical concept because you can take gravity away and one is a abstract philosophical concept because you can not physically take it away.

Disproven? by whom? when did this happen? As far as I know we've had no non-humans do tests in other parts of the universe to see if it exists without humans to perceive it. Do you know a Martian?

I said it "seems to be disproven". If all humans die tomorrow, everything the world tells us is that it will move on with or without us.

That's entirely false. I can sing a tune that you are displeased with and effected by, but I have not violated your rights by singing it. You do not have the right to not be offended, but I do have the right to express myself freely.

I do not have a right to be offended? If you are singing a tune that displeases me, that takes away my ability to be happy. You do have a right to express yourself and I have a right to be happy, when these two conflict we have to come up with a compromise.

The moment the first human was born.

There was never a first human because humans are constantly evolving. There is never an exact point where a child becomes an adult. We place an age on it but the difference between the two is no different then any instant when someone is a child or an adult.

The natural rights I've described have existed for as gravity has existed.

I thought they came when the first human was born?

I don't have a "version" of human rights. Nor do you. Nor does anyone. Human rights are there even if you choose not to recognize them as part of the laws of nature. They exist even if you are prevented from exercising them. All humans have the same rights despite any personal beliefs they may or may not have.

How do we know what natural rights are? There is nothing that says what natural rights are. They are all made by individuals and there view of the world around them.

Society has not invented anything; individuals have. Rights are not an invention. They are a law of nature and are as real as any law of physics. Without a society you have all rights. With a society you have all rights. Your rights are the same regardless of whether or not you are living around others and regardless of what the laws are in a particular government where you may live.

You have to compromise your rights when you live with other people because they will conflict.



I guess I do have a philosphical question Beestie.

If you have something that can not be taken away from you does it really exist or is it just an illusion?

(Just for the record, I should have said you have to compromise your rights, or illusion of rights, when you live in a society. You technically still have them, but you are not allowed to use them.)