Terrible two-year-old

ferret88 · 07-30-2007, 12:52 PM

Lil' Ferret turns 2 on 09AUG07. I need some advice folks.

I know it comes with the (age) territory, but she's at the stage wherein she is testing her bounds and limits. The current major issue is that she just up-and-decides she's done eating and announces the fact by chukking whatever's left in front of her onto the floor.

My initial reaction is to want to smack her and let-forth with the expletives. What really happens after I take a deep breath, is this: If I can grab a hand, gunked up as it may be, I try to swat that and let her know in loud voice "We don't throw our food on the floor! If you're done, say'Done, Daddy.'" Then she gets put into timeout (which is comprised of a square made from portable baby fence and is located in the living room.) I then clean up her mess and rescue her after she's had time to take off her socks (which is the first thing she always does in timeout.)

Any of you Parental Units have suggestions about how to best deal with this? How long does this last?

smurfalicious · 07-30-2007, 01:16 PM

Mine never did that. So I'm just going to talk out of my ass here for a minute...

I think if I were in your shoes, I would only give her half of what you would normally give her. That way you've taken away her opportunity to throw the remaining food, since she'll finish the small amount and probably still be hungry. Then she'll have to ask for more. When you give her more, give her one bite at a time so she continually asks for it (and learns to verbalize her wants and needs rather than act out).

SteveDallas · 07-30-2007, 01:16 PM

Welcome to parenthood!

Well at that age I don't believe you can just let something like that go. But at the same time, it's a lost cause to turn something (anything) into a power struggle. My only two thoughts are:

1. Make her clean it up. Of course you'll still be doing most of the cleaning and maybe she'll be wiping the floor with a paper towel and possibly making a bit more for you to clean. But it will start to emphasize a direct consequence of her behavior.

2. I'm not sure about this one... for an older kid I would suggest giving her a reward of doing something she doesn't get to do often, if she eats without throwing her food. The problem is that won't work if the kid does have a concept to relate action A to consequence B, and if they don't take place at the same time, I'm not sure at her age she will make the association.

On the other hand, ignoring it may seem counterintuitive, but it might be the way to go. Pushing buttons and getting a reaction, even a negative one, can be a "reward" of sorts, and sometimes what you have to do is just not get pissed off no matter how badly you're provoked or how much it's deserved. (This advice is easy to give and hard to take, as my children would be happy to tell you.) But I personally would try #1 first and see what happens.

EDIT: I like Smurf's.

ferret88 · 07-30-2007, 01:37 PM

Smurf -

That approach of giving her less has been suggested by a co-worker as well. I guess that's step one. I haven't been giving her that much to begin with. Lately, she's not been eating much, well, at least as much as she had been eating a couple months ago. She had been putting away almost as much as I could. Growth spurt maybe?

ferret88 · 07-30-2007, 01:44 PM

Steve -

Trying to get her to "help clean it up" would, I fear, be like trying to herd cats. Though the approach will be filed for dealing with her at later age.

As for the reward angle, that definitely sounds good on the surface, but I've encountered kids who do (something) and EXPECT the reward -- have trouble identifying the line between what is expected and what is helpful/above-and-beyond expectations. I suppose use in moderation is the way to go.

I DO get the feeling she's doing things to elicit a response. Perhaps, as they say, ignorance is bliss?

glatt · 07-30-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferret88

I DO get the feeling she's doing things to elicit a response. Perhaps, as they say, ignorance is bliss?

That's very likely. Try to be calm and boring, but firm when dealing with her bad behavior. Don't reward her with excitement after she's done something bad. Just be matter of fact. Also make sure you are giving her plenty of attention when she is good.

I also like the smaller portions idea. Sometimes if you can diffuse a situation before it occurs, that's much better/easier.

The twos were not that long ago, but I've kind of forgotten what they were like. What they are capable of and what you can expect.

ferret88 · 07-30-2007, 02:15 PM

Thanks, Glatt. That's kinda encouraging.

Will endeavor to react less dramatically. However, must also get Mrs.Ferret on the same page.

monster · 07-30-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferret88

Smurf -

That approach of giving her less has been suggested by a co-worker as well. I guess that's step one. I haven't been giving her that much to begin with. Lately, she's not been eating much, well, at least as much as she had been eating a couple months ago. She had been putting away almost as much as I could. Growth spurt maybe?

I like Smurf's approach. Clearly how much you are giving her to eat does not relate to how much she eats, so stop giving her so much. If she is hungry, she will ask.

Whatever you do, don't let her see you're anxious over how little she is eating. Once she has that to hold over you, you are in trouble, and so might she be. Do not let eating become a power struggle -it's too important. Kids can hold their breath for a long time, but at some point the body defeats the mind and makes them breathe. It's not so easy with food. If there is no issue over it, she will eat more when her body needs more. Some children do vary their food intake quite dramatically as they go through different phases. Some never seem to eat, and some put away enough for a herd of elephants. It's all normal.

07-30-2007, 06:33 PM

My son really didn't start to push his boundaries until late two into three and he was deep in it during the middle of his third year.
He is just now starting to stop the real testing, but those days are not over.
But, we are a special case.
With my illness he has some problems other kids don't have and a lot more people that he directly answers to.
In a lot of ways this helps, he has to learn that he has to obey different people different ways.
The down side is that he has learned that, with some things, if he is just patient, he can get his way if he just waits until he finds someone to say "yes". This bites him on the ass though, because when he gets caught doing this he gets in major trouble.

I've had to learn to be VERY creative with him, especially around one and two (he is four now), because I could not just pick him up and make him do what I wanted or go where I liked, nor did we practice corporal punishment.
It was challenging but VERY rewarding when we, he and I, developed the relationship that worked for us both.

He eats when he is hungry.

jinx · 07-30-2007, 06:52 PM

I would start with explaining what the problem is, then how to fix it. Two year olds want to please you.

"Uh oh, you made a mess - gotta clean it up"

While you're both cleaning it up...

"We don't throw food on the floor, look at the mess it makes" (keep it light/boring like SD said - don't make a big deal out of it)

Model appropriate behavior...

"I'm all done! Time to put my plate in the sink and wash my hands..."

Aliantha · 07-30-2007, 07:55 PM

I would probably tell her the consequences of throwing her food on the floor before she sits down to eat her food. She's old enough to start to understand consequences. That's why she's doing it. She's got power over you because you're the one cleaning up her mess. You're the one reacting to it.

I'd even go so far as to put the cleaning equipment on the table in front of her to look at while she's eating.

You have to keep the upper hand. If she wins this battle, it's just going to make the next one harder.

07-30-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

I would start with explaining what the problem is, then how to fix it. Two year olds want to please you.

"Uh oh, you made a mess - gotta clean it up"

While you're both cleaning it up...

"We don't throw food on the floor, look at the mess it makes" (keep it light/boring like SD said - don't make a big deal out of it)

Model appropriate behavior...

"I'm all done! Time to put my plate in the sink and wash my hands..."

Exactly.
If that does not work, then no desert, no books at bedtime (my son's worst punishment), no song at bedtime, no favorite program, activity, etc...
After the third day of this, zero tolerance, first handful=immediate "ok no ____ now" then just ignore the fit, take the food away while the fit is happening. When the calm down ask, "ready to eat without throwing it/making a mess?"
I found that the escalation to zero-tolerance ends the behavior pretty quickly. If it does not, there is a core issue beyond play that needs to be gotten to/addressed and more in-depth talks/observation is needed.
The self-empowerment and positive reinforcement, "WOW, you ate all of that so WELL, what a BIG BOY/GIRL!" aspect of the above is the most important.
Once I do that I NEVER bring up any negative aspect of the behavior, just the positive, and I always brag to the other parent in front of them, or within ear-shot of them soon after about the positive behavior.
It is easy to forget to focus on this, but it is the most important part.

DucksNuts · 07-30-2007, 08:24 PM

All good advice.

I have 2 and 4 yr old boys and I do a lot of explaining about consequences prior to the event, to prevent repeat offenses.

Keeping it low key is a must, as are the consequences of her actions. You must always follow through with whatever you decide too.

On the amount of food front, dont stress at all. Kids tend to flow in cycles, they eat heaps, they eat nothing and then they graze all day.

They wont let themselves starve and so long as your daughter is being offered a good healthy range of food when she is hungry...you have no worries at all.

The terrible twos are kinda fun in a way, two year olds are sooo cute and sooo frustrating. Gotta love the road to independence.

07-30-2007, 08:27 PM

Yeah, my biggest problem as a parent is my temper when I am in a lot of pain.
I have the syndrome when I am in extreme pain where I have phantom emotions and emotions that are "larger" than they need to be.
I am usually aware of it when it is happening, but it is VERY hard to control.
I do a lot of apologizing.
But, you guys know that.
I am fortunate to be blessed with a amazingly intelligent, sensitive, and insightful young man as a son. I do not deserve it.

yesman065 · 07-30-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I am fortunate to be blessed with a amazingly intelligent, sensitive, and insightful young man as a son. I do not deserve it.

Yes you do, and you helped shape him into the wonderful young man he is - Don't ever forget that.

07-30-2007, 01:16 PM	#2
smurfalicious Tool. Not the band - you are one. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 501 Northlake Blvd., North Palm Beach FL Posts: 329	Mine never did that. So I'm just going to talk out of my ass here for a minute... I think if I were in your shoes, I would only give her half of what you would normally give her. That way you've taken away her opportunity to throw the remaining food, since she'll finish the small amount and probably still be hungry. Then she'll have to ask for more. When you give her more, give her one bite at a time so she continually asks for it (and learns to verbalize her wants and needs rather than act out). __________________ Last edited by smurfalicious; 07-30-2007 at 01:17 PM. Reason: dyslexia

07-30-2007, 06:52 PM	#10
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	I would start with explaining what the problem is, then how to fix it. Two year olds want to please you. "Uh oh, you made a mess - gotta clean it up" While you're both cleaning it up... "We don't throw food on the floor, look at the mess it makes" (keep it light/boring like SD said - don't make a big deal out of it) Model appropriate behavior... "I'm all done! Time to put my plate in the sink and wash my hands..." __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

07-30-2007, 07:55 PM	#11
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I would probably tell her the consequences of throwing her food on the floor before she sits down to eat her food. She's old enough to start to understand consequences. That's why she's doing it. She's got power over you because you're the one cleaning up her mess. You're the one reacting to it. I'd even go so far as to put the cleaning equipment on the table in front of her to look at while she's eating. You have to keep the upper hand. If she wins this battle, it's just going to make the next one harder. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

07-30-2007, 12:52 PM	#1
ferret88 (This space left intentionally UN-blank.) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 604	Terrible two-year-old Lil' Ferret turns 2 on 09AUG07. I need some advice folks. I know it comes with the (age) territory, but she's at the stage wherein she is testing her bounds and limits. The current major issue is that she just up-and-decides she's done eating and announces the fact by chukking whatever's left in front of her onto the floor. My initial reaction is to want to smack her and let-forth with the expletives. What really happens after I take a deep breath, is this: If I can grab a hand, gunked up as it may be, I try to swat that and let her know in loud voice "We don't throw our food on the floor! If you're done, say'Done, Daddy.'" Then she gets put into timeout (which is comprised of a square made from portable baby fence and is located in the living room.) I then clean up her mess and rescue her after she's had time to take off her socks (which is the first thing she always does in timeout.) Any of you Parental Units have suggestions about how to best deal with this? How long does this last?

07-30-2007, 01:16 PM	#3
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	Welcome to parenthood! Well at that age I don't believe you can just let something like that go. But at the same time, it's a lost cause to turn something (anything) into a power struggle. My only two thoughts are: 1. Make her clean it up. Of course you'll still be doing most of the cleaning and maybe she'll be wiping the floor with a paper towel and possibly making a bit more for you to clean. But it will start to emphasize a direct consequence of her behavior. 2. I'm not sure about this one... for an older kid I would suggest giving her a reward of doing something she doesn't get to do often, if she eats without throwing her food. The problem is that won't work if the kid does have a concept to relate action A to consequence B, and if they don't take place at the same time, I'm not sure at her age she will make the association. On the other hand, ignoring it may seem counterintuitive, but it might be the way to go. Pushing buttons and getting a reaction, even a negative one, can be a "reward" of sorts, and sometimes what you have to do is just not get pissed off no matter how badly you're provoked or how much it's deserved. (This advice is easy to give and hard to take, as my children would be happy to tell you.) But I personally would try #1 first and see what happens. EDIT: I like Smurf's.

07-30-2007, 01:37 PM	#4
ferret88 (This space left intentionally UN-blank.) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 604	Smurf - That approach of giving her less has been suggested by a co-worker as well. I guess that's step one. I haven't been giving her that much to begin with. Lately, she's not been eating much, well, at least as much as she had been eating a couple months ago. She had been putting away almost as much as I could. Growth spurt maybe?

07-30-2007, 01:44 PM	#5
ferret88 (This space left intentionally UN-blank.) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 604	Steve - Trying to get her to "help clean it up" would, I fear, be like trying to herd cats. Though the approach will be filed for dealing with her at later age. As for the reward angle, that definitely sounds good on the surface, but I've encountered kids who do (something) and EXPECT the reward -- have trouble identifying the line between what is expected and what is helpful/above-and-beyond expectations. I suppose use in moderation is the way to go. I DO get the feeling she's doing things to elicit a response. Perhaps, as they say, ignorance is bliss?

07-30-2007, 02:15 PM	#7
ferret88 (This space left intentionally UN-blank.) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 604	Thanks, Glatt. That's kinda encouraging. Will endeavor to react less dramatically. However, must also get Mrs.Ferret on the same page.

07-30-2007, 06:33 PM	#9
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	My son really didn't start to push his boundaries until late two into three and he was deep in it during the middle of his third year. He is just now starting to stop the real testing, but those days are not over. But, we are a special case. With my illness he has some problems other kids don't have and a lot more people that he directly answers to. In a lot of ways this helps, he has to learn that he has to obey different people different ways. The down side is that he has learned that, with some things, if he is just patient, he can get his way if he just waits until he finds someone to say "yes". This bites him on the ass though, because when he gets caught doing this he gets in major trouble. I've had to learn to be VERY creative with him, especially around one and two (he is four now), because I could not just pick him up and make him do what I wanted or go where I liked, nor did we practice corporal punishment. It was challenging but VERY rewarding when we, he and I, developed the relationship that worked for us both. He eats when he is hungry.

07-30-2007, 08:24 PM	#13
DucksNuts Bitchy Little Brat Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 5,067	All good advice. I have 2 and 4 yr old boys and I do a lot of explaining about consequences prior to the event, to prevent repeat offenses. Keeping it low key is a must, as are the consequences of her actions. You must always follow through with whatever you decide too. On the amount of food front, dont stress at all. Kids tend to flow in cycles, they eat heaps, they eat nothing and then they graze all day. They wont let themselves starve and so long as your daughter is being offered a good healthy range of food when she is hungry...you have no worries at all. The terrible twos are kinda fun in a way, two year olds are sooo cute and sooo frustrating. Gotta love the road to independence.

07-30-2007, 08:27 PM	#14
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Yeah, my biggest problem as a parent is my temper when I am in a lot of pain. I have the syndrome when I am in extreme pain where I have phantom emotions and emotions that are "larger" than they need to be. I am usually aware of it when it is happening, but it is VERY hard to control. I do a lot of apologizing. But, you guys know that. I am fortunate to be blessed with a amazingly intelligent, sensitive, and insightful young man as a son. I do not deserve it.

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