Smart Meters

[skysidhe]

The place I lived just installed electrical smart meters.They are digital and suppose to save money but I am wondering for whom.

My kilowatt use for November was 74 and for December it jumped to 734. I have natural gas for heat and do not use any more electric than I ever have. That's a bill increase of $30 which includes a distribution charge increase of $9.

I looked them up on the web and see many complaints mainly from California where others are complaining a spike in their bills also but the oil and electric companies will deny they are overcharging and attribute it to something like seasonal weather or user error.

Does anyone else have a smart meter or digital meter running for either their electric or oil?

[glatt]

Pull out your bill from last December and compare your usage to that. That's a fairer comparison.

[skysidhe]

thanks glatt

Fortunately it isn't the $30 dollars that is bothering me. It is the notation that my kilowatt hours jumped from 74 to 734. I have not even plugged in Christmas lights yet. It isn't darker this month than last. I just hope they do not install the smart meters for the nat. gas.



http://www.deanflorez.com/page.asp/c...548/csasp.html
CPUC votes to require Smart Meter testing
Florez called for independent review of PG&E devices amid widespread billing anomalies
SACRAMENTO – The California Public Utilities Commission today declared “extraordinary circumstances” to allow them to quickly move forward with hiring an independent consultant to test PG&E’s “Smart” Meters, amid widespread reports of billing anomalies with the new digital meters, including bill spikes of double and triple normal utility payments – even in vacant homes.
Senate Majority Leader Dean Florez (D-Shafter) has held hearings in Bakersfield and Fresno on residents’ concerns that Smart Meters are not accurately reading their energy usage. Many of those residents reported spikes in usage while they were at work or on vacation.



http://people.bakersfield.com/home/B...dsbarred/52097 PG&E smartmeters WILL be tested
Just got this from Sen. Dean Florez' office.
YAY! (though why it took intervention from a senator to get the CPUC to get off its duff and actually treat consumer's complaints seriously is another story!)
Still, good news!
And I'm also reading that customers in the Bay Area who are just now getting the smart meters are having the same complaints we did down here in Bakoland.
One man emailed me from Fairfield about how his bill is normally $160 in the fall. After getting a smart meter it was $500 for last month. Not exactly a heat wave going on in Fairfield (which is on the delta) and certainly not at this time of year.
What's PG&E's excuse for THAT!?
Anyhow, here's Sen. Florez' release:
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1680838.html
More than 100 people packed a hearing at the Hugh M. Burns State Building in downtown Fresno tonight to vent their frustation with PG&E's newest metering technology, which customers say has led to unwarranted spikes in utility bills.
Dozens more stood outside the meeting room. Several people held signs that read, "PG&E are a bunch of theives" and"PUC ripoffs.

[ZenGum]

Damn near ten-fold increase I don't think so.
Were these meters made by the same company (Diebold?) that made those dodgy electronic voting machines?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

My kilowatt use for November was 74 and for December it jumped to 734. I have natural gas for heat and do not use any more electric than I ever have. That's a bill increase of $30 which includes a distribution charge increase of

74 kilowatt hours is awfully low, around here they claim the average is 500 KwH... mine runs between 400 and 600.

I was annoyed when they changed my meter to the remote read type, in the middle of the month, without warning. I've got no way of knowing what the reading was on the meter they replaced, but I didn't have to kill anyone because the bill was in the ballpark.

What does this smart meter do for you, besides raise your bill? Does it give you any on-site information?

[skysidhe]

@ zen I was wrong. It's double. I know 10 x is scary. I read the bill wrong.
I've never really paid much attention to it except when I saw the decrepancy between 74 and 734 I didn't know to subtract one from the other. That's my kilowatt hours. Which is still too high.


@Bruce. I went and double checked against what you said.

No it has not done anything other than raise my bill. 2010 they will have usage information.

I just went back and looked at prior bills. The meters reset so the 74 was from the last reading. I didn't look closely enough. It says I used 660 kilowatts from November to December but Oct to November was 358 kilowatts which has been ball park for me. The previous months have been 270s average. So you are right bruce I should be running between 400-500 but never close to 700 kilowatt hours in a month which 660 kwhr is double.




I hope I just forgot to shut a high powered light off all month last month.(sarc)

My kid did have insomnia last month. Can someone being up all night double the energy use? I hope so. At least it would explain it.

I am looking at the differences. I know the meters reset but am I seeing a too large a gap in numbers?

[Undertoad]

More energy gets used by large appliances... maybe somebody did extra loads of laundry and left the fridge door open? The hot water left on?

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

More energy gets used by large appliances... maybe somebody did extra loads of laundry and left the fridge door open? The hot water left on?

Or it could be that the new meters are more accurate than the old ones. Or it could be that the new meters are less accurate than the old ones.

The previous month's usage was calculated after a rollover or meter replacement, which may have caused an error in his favor. A better test would be to look at the month prior to that.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

More energy gets used by large appliances... maybe somebody did extra loads of laundry and left the fridge door open? The hot water left on?

I have a separate (off peak) meter for my water heater, and a couple bills ago, that meter reading doubled for a month. Sure enough, the hot water faucet down cellar was right on the line between a fast drip and a slow stream.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Or it could be that the new meters are more accurate than the old ones. Or it could be that the new meters are less accurate than the old ones.

The previous month's usage was calculated after a rollover or meter replacement, which may have caused an error in his favor. A better test would be to look at the month prior to that.

May 277
June 299
July 270
August 258
Sept 358
Oct 308
Nov 358
Dec 660

Maybe UT.


These were for the months prior of course and November was a dark rainy month and there was a light left on all night all month and I do use the oven which may be the culprit?


I hope you are right rich and I've just been getting a deal. When the usage reports come out in 2010 it will be interesting to see where energy usage is coming from.

I have been calculating my daily usage and the way the meter is running I am using 19 kw per day which will be about 570.

B. What do you mean off peak for your water heater? How did you fix it?
I know that the electric company charge more for on peak times but I don't know what time of day that is. Probably the times of night when people like to turn on their holiday lights.

I'm a giv'n up on this .... I did report it to the electric company though so they know.

I do appreciate the comments so thanks .

[ZenGum]

Okay, maybe not ten-fold, but that is still one heck of a jump.

Lightbulbs use a tiny amount of power - say, 60 watt lightbulb x 24 hours x 30 days = 43200 watt hours / month = 43 kilowatt hours / month.

So leaving an extra lightbulb on all month would still leave 260 or so KWHs unaccounted for.

Ovens use much more power, but I can't imagine you leaving one on 24 / 7. Did you cook a really biiiiig turkey?

But if you're losing interest, fair enough. $30. Send the bastards the dough.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

May 277
June 299
July 270
August 258
Sept 358
Oct 308
Nov 358
Dec 660

Well, that blows my underreporting theory. If you suspect any specific device and it is a plug-in device, you might consider one of these

http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation...0666577&sr=8-1 .

There are actually a few models from the same company. The cheapest is $20 and might give you some answers.

[skysidhe]

I looked at those last night!


great minds think alike

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

B. What do you mean off peak for your water heater? How did you fix it?
I know that the electric company charge more for on peak times but I don't know what time of day that is. Probably the times of night when people like to turn on their holiday lights.

I fixed it by fixing the leaky faucet. The separate off-peak meter is on a timer that kills the power, to anything supplied by it, during the late afternoon and early evening when the demand for power is highest. I only have the water heater hooked to that meter, but the electric company will allow me to hook anything I want, as long as I tell them. High consuming appliances like a clothes dryer, or tools like a welder, that can usually be used avoiding the peak hours, are good candidates for the cheaper, by a third, rate.

Businesses are required to use a demand meter, which not only measures the total power used, but also the rate at which it's used. Say you had a lunch business that didn't total that much power for the month, but the business was only open for a couple hours a day, 5 days a week. But when it was open, you'd be using power at a hellacious rate for the deep fryers, grills and stuff. The demand meter tips off the electric company, and it only takes exceeding the demand limit for one hour, for them to bang you with a much higher rate for the entire month.
I can't help but wonder if that's where the smart meters are leading? After all, these new meters must be costing them a shitload of money, so they must think it's going to help them somehow.

[dar512]

Appliances that make heat use the most electricity. I'd guess if you have an electric oven that you've been doing some holiday cooking.

Electric space heaters, hair dryers, halogen lights, etc. might also be contributing.