Quit Hoping to Hell and Start Hoping to Heaven

JBKlyde · 02-09-2012, 09:51 PM

discuss?? I could make a statement but it would probably be irrational and unsatisfying. So why doesn't someone else just spell it out for us. I think the "head line" speaks for it self but, I'm curious what kind of response I could get. Think of it like gorillas in the mist I'm the anthropologist, yall are the apes so just make comments and I'll learn the behavior.

BigV · 02-09-2012, 09:57 PM

hope to hell is just an idiom, a figure of speech. I have never heard it used in earnest. When I've used it, it has just been as an expression of intense and fearful hoping. Not really for hell.

Banana please.

limey · 02-10-2012, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBKlyde

... like gorillas in the mist ...

I think this is a great description of us Dwellars!

Griff · 02-10-2012, 05:45 AM

I think its derived from "hope in hell" as in the lack thereof. So it isn't the evil you may imagine, just a religious description of despair.

footfootfoot · 02-10-2012, 07:05 AM

... to hell, apart from "go to hell" I think comes from the extent to which one is willing to undertake their endeavor. Think Orpheus and Eurydice.

Similar to "to the ends of the earth" (distance) as opposed to "'til, (or often to) the end of the earth" (duration)

tw · 02-10-2012, 07:19 AM

As Socrates proved, there is no good and evil. Each is only a perspective. One man's hell is another man's heaven. I hope to your hell that my life is better. Or I hope to your heaven that bin Laden gets what he deserved. Heaven and hell can mean almost anything. Especially when each is only fictional.

I hope to ... that I have confused you.

There is no heaven or hell. There is only life.

Philosophy and other fictions are fun[ny].

Ibby · 02-10-2012, 09:29 AM

Unless you meant beyond the idiomatic phrase "I hope to hell ____" - in which case, no, i'm perfectly satisfied hoping that, if there is a Christian afterlife (which I solidly believe there isn't), I'm not eligible for the "heaven" bit. I'm going to live my life by my own value system, in a way I find ethical, and to hell with the haters yeah?

Undertoad · 02-10-2012, 10:11 AM

When I was 10, I announced to the class that I did not believe in god.

The rest of the kids were *highly* confused by this. The teacher said, it's fine, he can believe that, there are many different beliefs.

One by one, about a third of the class came up to me in a kind of wonderment, having never come in contact with a nonbeliever. And most of them asked, "But aren't you afraid of hell?"

Well obviously, if I didn't believe in god, then I didn't believe in hell; and so it was entirely illogical to appeal to hell as a reason to believe in god.

These kids had learned everything at such an early age that it became part of their very existence, and actually approaching it with logic was foreign to them. They could only argue for their god within the belief system that they had been brought up into. It was an enlightening day, and at the end of it I was more certain of my non-belief than ever.

~ ~ ~

It gets worse when you learn that most of our concepts of what hell might be are not biblical at all, but come from Dante, Milton, and various church's bullshit interpretations. The bible doesn't describe "levels" of hell, for example; that's Dante. Biblical researchers find that our concept of hell might even be an effect of incorrect translations.

Also, a god who permits eternal damnation and suffering is not really the sort of god that we would look up to, not the god we can or should actually worship.

Humanity are not slaves, and when you really think about it, the idea of a god who gets angry when we disobey, and deeply punishes us, is offensive. A god who establishes a system of eternal torture is a horror.

So: fuck hell. There is no hell. It's a human invention, and does not exist.

Beest · 02-10-2012, 10:26 AM

My first Thai Chi teacher, a Thai woman, mixed a lot of Philosphy and meditation in with class, one the catchphrases was

"Live not with hope but with mindfulness", I like it.

There was an interesting History channel program about the changing nature of the Devil and Hell in the Bible, early on Lucifer is an Angel subservient to God, and develops to a seperate entity with his own realm who seeks to overthrow God.

fargon · 02-10-2012, 10:34 AM

Always hope to heaven!!! Heaven and hell are real places.

footfootfoot · 02-10-2012, 12:34 PM

I am certain of nothing but of the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination --
Keats

BigV · 02-10-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

snip--

So: fuck hell. There is no hell. It's a human invention, and does not exist.

ORLY?

JBKlyde · 02-10-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Always hope to heaven!!! Heaven and hell are real places.

This was the simplest and most coherent answer.

Bravo.. Fargon

glatt · 02-10-2012, 01:28 PM

What do you expect from gorillas in the mist?

jimhelm · 02-10-2012, 01:35 PM

You didn't mention that you would be casting judgement on our opinions.

Your thread is invalid. I shan't participate further.

02-09-2012, 09:51 PM	#1
JBKlyde Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Encrypted Into an AmpitheaterWall Posts: 1,722	Quit Hoping to Hell and Start Hoping to Heaven discuss?? I could make a statement but it would probably be irrational and unsatisfying. So why doesn't someone else just spell it out for us. I think the "head line" speaks for it self but, I'm curious what kind of response I could get. Think of it like gorillas in the mist I'm the anthropologist, yall are the apes so just make comments and I'll learn the behavior.

02-09-2012, 09:57 PM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	hope to hell is just an idiom, a figure of speech. I have never heard it used in earnest. When I've used it, it has just been as an expression of intense and fearful hoping. Not really for hell. Banana please. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

02-10-2012, 05:45 AM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I think its derived from "hope in hell" as in the lack thereof. So it isn't the evil you may imagine, just a religious description of despair. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

02-10-2012, 07:05 AM	#5
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	... to hell, apart from "go to hell" I think comes from the extent to which one is willing to undertake their endeavor. Think Orpheus and Eurydice. Similar to "to the ends of the earth" (distance) as opposed to "'til, (or often to) the end of the earth" (duration) __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

02-10-2012, 09:29 AM	#7
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Unless you meant beyond the idiomatic phrase "I hope to hell ____" - in which case, no, i'm perfectly satisfied hoping that, if there is a Christian afterlife (which I solidly believe there isn't), I'm not eligible for the "heaven" bit. I'm going to live my life by my own value system, in a way I find ethical, and to hell with the haters yeah? __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

02-10-2012, 07:19 AM	#6
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	As Socrates proved, there is no good and evil. Each is only a perspective. One man's hell is another man's heaven. I hope to your hell that my life is better. Or I hope to your heaven that bin Laden gets what he deserved. Heaven and hell can mean almost anything. Especially when each is only fictional. I hope to ... that I have confused you. There is no heaven or hell. There is only life. Philosophy and other fictions are fun[ny].

02-10-2012, 10:11 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	When I was 10, I announced to the class that I did not believe in god. The rest of the kids were highly confused by this. The teacher said, it's fine, he can believe that, there are many different beliefs. One by one, about a third of the class came up to me in a kind of wonderment, having never come in contact with a nonbeliever. And most of them asked, "But aren't you afraid of hell?" Well obviously, if I didn't believe in god, then I didn't believe in hell; and so it was entirely illogical to appeal to hell as a reason to believe in god. These kids had learned everything at such an early age that it became part of their very existence, and actually approaching it with logic was foreign to them. They could only argue for their god within the belief system that they had been brought up into. It was an enlightening day, and at the end of it I was more certain of my non-belief than ever. ~ ~ ~ It gets worse when you learn that most of our concepts of what hell might be are not biblical at all, but come from Dante, Milton, and various church's bullshit interpretations. The bible doesn't describe "levels" of hell, for example; that's Dante. Biblical researchers find that our concept of hell might even be an effect of incorrect translations. Also, a god who permits eternal damnation and suffering is not really the sort of god that we would look up to, not the god we can or should actually worship. Humanity are not slaves, and when you really think about it, the idea of a god who gets angry when we disobey, and deeply punishes us, is offensive. A god who establishes a system of eternal torture is a horror. So: fuck hell. There is no hell. It's a human invention, and does not exist.

02-10-2012, 10:26 AM	#9
Beest Adapt and Survive Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, Mi Posts: 957	My first Thai Chi teacher, a Thai woman, mixed a lot of Philosphy and meditation in with class, one the catchphrases was "Live not with hope but with mindfulness", I like it. There was an interesting History channel program about the changing nature of the Devil and Hell in the Bible, early on Lucifer is an Angel subservient to God, and develops to a seperate entity with his own realm who seeks to overthrow God.

02-10-2012, 10:34 AM	#10
fargon Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: La Crosse, WI Posts: 8,924	Always hope to heaven!!! Heaven and hell are real places. __________________ Annoy the ones that ignore you!!! I live a blessed life I Love my Country, I Fear the Government!!! Heavily medicated for the good of mankind.

02-10-2012, 12:34 PM	#11
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I am certain of nothing but of the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination -- Keats __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

02-10-2012, 01:28 PM	#14
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	What do you expect from gorillas in the mist?

02-10-2012, 01:35 PM	#15
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	You didn't mention that you would be casting judgement on our opinions. Your thread is invalid. I shan't participate further. __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

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