6/20: 24 Brit soldiers

[Undertoad]

Northern France. While excavating ground for a new BMW plant, the bodies of 24 British soldiers were found, entirely intact. They were buried with arms linked in a sign of solidarity and it is thought they are all from the same town.

Can you imagine being buried arm-in-arm with a fellow soldier on foreign soil because you are from the same town as he is? The things that link us are growing less and less.

Can you imagine 24 dead from the same town - from any cause including war - and not having any record that they had died, how they had died, and where they were buried? The information that we save is growing more and more.

[Chewbaccus]

I would wager that they were POW's in a Nazi camp, prior to the D-Day invasion.

Just the way they died is obvious they were executed en masse, which says automatic weapons. The earliest use of autos in France was WWI, but I don't think the Germans made it past Paris, thus a WWII camp.

In which case, it's understandable something like this would happen. In a situation like that, any differences would be the acme of trivial.

~Mike

[Undertoad]

Except that, dopey me, I forgot to include the detail that these guys were WWI soldiers, killed in 1917.

[CyclopONE]

Which town is this site near? Somme? Verdun?

I'd wouldn't think that they are all from the same town. Imagine going through war with a group of men. I would think that one would develop a strong group bond, just by the sheer terror of the trench warfare of WWI.

When they were captured, the German forces most likely tortured the highest ranking officer for information on the British Army's movements. My guess is that he refused, and after the whole group was tortured, they were executed.

-Cyc

[Undertoad]

The by-line <a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010619/wl/sons_of_war_2.html">here</a> says ARRAS. Here's the eerie fact that supports your theory. One other guy was found alone, separate from the rest.

Woah.

[Slithy_Tove]

Originally posted by CyclopONE
I'd wouldn't think that they are all from the same town. Imagine going through war with a group of men.
-Cyc

Lord Kitchener imagined just that, and the British public loved the idea. History knows them as the 'Pals Battalions', or sometimes 'Chums'. They were groups of men recruited from communities, clubs, and trade associations, who trained together, deployed together, fought together, and often died together. See: http://www.granadalearning.com/yitm/...christmas.html, 'The Pals Battalions' near the bottom of the page, or http://www.eebo.freeserve.co.uk/chums.htm on the 'Grimsby Chums'. (Latter page has midi music that can't be turned off.) The Chums were at Arras, and lost 420 dead. Maybe these are some of them. But they could easily be another Pals Battalion.

{Edited in later: Damn, I just read the original story on Yahoo, and these <i>were</i> the Grimsby's, or at least three of them definitely were: they wore 10th Lincoln shoulder patches, which was the Grimsby Chums' unit.}

Just a bunch of dead together doesn't mean they were killed deliberately as a group, after having been taken prisoner. Losses in trench warfare in WWI were huge, and often simultaneous. Machine guns were new at that time. Sometimes a battalion would go over the top, directly into machine gun fire, and be mowed down, to the man. It took the tacticians a while to figure out how to deal with this kind of warfare. Eventually they did. There's a good discussion of the horrors of the Battle of the Somme, and the kind of tactics that ultimately ended trench warfare in John Keegan's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140048979/o/qid=993111812/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-7896707-9346265"><i>The Face of Battle</i></a>, a fascinating book.

These are very poignant pictures, and reminders of a colorful and horrible moment in military history. Arms linked in death...

[Edited by Slithy_Tove on 06-21-2001 at 04:39 AM]

[Chewbaccus]

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
Except that, dopey me, I forgot to include the detail that these guys were WWI soldiers, killed in 1917.

...thanks.

I can't see that though. I could swear that the Germans or one of the Central Powers didn't get that far North. Granted, my knowledge is self-taught. When we came to WWI in American History II this year, all we learned was how long it lasted, when we came in, why it happened, and tech that came out of it. That was it. If all I knew was what I learned in that class, I wouldn't know who won the damn thing.

Lousy teacher...the man was obsessed with local history. He would use any and all methods imaginable to tie in things to our podunk corner of Allegheny Co.

~Mike

[Undertoad]

[unrelated question] Tove, you were a FishNetter, weren't you?

[Slithy_Tove]

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
[unrelated question] Tove, you were a FishNetter, weren't you?

That's me. I moved to Verizon when DSL became available in my area. There's no going back. ^^

FishNet is pretty much fins-up now, isn't it? I check phl.internet now and then, and even old warhorses like Dinara the Garlic Queen were looking for another ISP a few months ago.

BTW, thanks for the Cellar. I ran across it by accident, doing a Google search for something or another. The Picture of the Day is often fascinating.

[Undertoad]

(To outsiders: FishNet is an ISP near Philly, which I worked for from 96-97 and Tove was a user)

I don't know exactly what the status is, but it's not completely dead. They have been trying vainly to sell it for a very long time, and there are no buyers. Four months ago there were still about 800 users.

Weren't you a Quake enthusiast back then? Did we wind up shooting at each other at some point? The whole office there was big on gaming, and we used to play Duke regularly after hours.

It's truly amazing if you found the Cellar through "organic" means, and not my sig or sycamore's (he posts to phl.*) or some other, "local" method.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
It's truly amazing if you found the Cellar through "organic" means, and not my sig or sycamore's (he posts to phl.*) or some other, "local" method.

Well, I try to do my part here. ;-)

Actually Tony, Image of the Day is listed on page 2 of a google search if you type in those 4 little words.



[Edited by sycamore on 06-24-2001 at 03:11 AM]

[CharlieG]

Originally posted by CyclopONE
Which town is this site near? Somme? Verdun?

I'd wouldn't think that they are all from the same town<snip>-Cyc

Cyc,
Time to learn some military history - It was common in MOST countries, up till the end of WWI for military units to be rasied in ONE geographic location.

You USUALLY fought with people from your town! The US stopped this practice (Mostly) at the end of the Civil War (War Between the States for those of you down south), as entire towns lost every man of that generation

Look at how WWI was fought. 25 from one town? I don't doubt it at all

[russotto]

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
(To outsiders: FishNet is an ISP near Philly, which I worked for from 96-97 and Tove was a user)

I don't know exactly what the status is, but it's not completely dead. They have been trying vainly to sell it for a very long time, and there are no buyers. Four months ago there were still about 800 users.

They are still up and running. I still use them; given the state of the DSL market (all companies but the RBOCs either bankrupt or headed that way), maintaining a dialup ISP is just good sense.

[Slithy_Tove]

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
(To outsiders: FishNet is an ISP near Philly, which I worked for from 96-97 and Tove was a user)

[...]

Weren't you a Quake enthusiast back then? Did we wind up shooting at each other at some point? The whole office there was big on gaming, and we used to play Duke regularly after hours.

Yep, I was a Quake player, and played with you, some other 'Net employees, and some other Netters, on a Quake server that ran at Fishnet for a few months, before employees started to leave Fishnet in droves. I played Quake II for a year or so, then Tribes, then got lost in Everquest for a year . I played Quake III briefly, but got frustrated when all the servers seemed to fill up with bots. I've got Tribes II on the shelf, and someday I'll get around to installing it. There's just nothing quite like shooting people to relieve stress after a frustrating day on the job!

It's truly amazing if you found the Cellar through "organic" means, and not my sig or sycamore's (he posts to phl.*) or some other, "local" method.

Nope, I found it through a Google search. Still can't remember what I was searching for at the time, but it came up on one of your Image of the Day posts. Your name seemed familiar, I checked the main message board, and realized that it was you, and that the Cellar was in Philly.

[Undertoad]

Hey, I've got Tribes 2 on the shelf as well! I've bee playing the only game you haven't, Unreal Tourney. It works.

Did you read of the Everquest feud between Curt Schilling and Doug Glanville? When Glanville hit two home runs off Schilling a few months ago, he told ESPN it was because Schilling killed a character of his.