The Value of the Cellar, and Where it May Lead

lumberjim · 03-21-2004, 12:31 AM

As seen in the poll that I started last week, people take different things from the cellar....(or any message board like this, I suppose, but since you're in the cellar, I'll refer to this in cellar terms).....

I recognize in myself a certain obsession with it. At times, I think it's a problem, as I'm sure some of you who are subjected to me would agree, and other times, I see nothing wrong with it. So I began to think about WHY. Why do I spend so much time in here? Why do I care at all about people who, for the most part, I will never meet? Why do I spend time and effort trying to come up with ideas that will draw people in further, and commit them more strongly to the sense of community? It can be tough to examine your own motives, sometimes. My first guess was that it was an escape, like tv or reading. eh? maybe. Then I thought," It's because I have few real life friends that i can talk to about what we all talk about in here. Maybe I'll make some in here?" ......getting warmer, i think.

What I realized tonight, and this may change, I don;t know, but....anyway, here's what I'm thinking:

The things I put on the poll are all, individually, reasons enough to check back into the board as much as daily. And some of you do just that. But, the thing that has me checking it throughout the day while I work, and periodically in my free time, is that i like ALL of that stuff.

Here's the thing: I grew up with a group of friends that were great guys, and we had great times, but I was always aware that they were very average when it came to any kind of deep thinking or abstract ponderings. vainly put, I was the smartest of my group of friends until I was in the 11th grade, and started hanging out with some guys that scored in the 1300's on their SATs, and went to college for engineering (nerds)( partying nerds, though). They were much quicker witted, and at times their banter was challenging to keep pace with. I was novel to them too, i'm sure, as I was in the main stream/tough guy clique in school, yet I understood big words, and sometimes managed to make them laugh as well.

I lost touch with these guys after school, and apart from jinx, I lost touch with what I liked so much about hanging with those guys. Jinx and I are so similar in our beliefs and core philosophies, however, that really deep challenging discussions only come about if we disagree on something. the rest of the time, we just read each others eyes, faces, and sometimes minds, and we understand with a few short comments what the other person is saying, and what they really mean.

I have new friends at work, but yet again, and with the possible exception of one older salesman, I am the smartest one in my circle of friends, having to dumb-down some thing I want to talk about with them. Most of these guys have good common sense, and ther are only a few that I would actually call stupid, but ...well, you know what i mean.

My parents are both smart, and when my Father lived in the area, we would sit up late nights talkign shit about the universe, or computers, or women, you name it. He lives in NC, now. Shelby's sister and b-in-l are both fairly lucent, too, but most times when we're together, things tend to revolve around the kids.

So, back to the cellar. What the cellar does for lumberjim. It combines friends like I have described in all of the categories i've described above, as well as a few more that I haven't, and some others like me that can go either way depending on who we're talking to, with an interface that makes interaction nearly ...interactive. It's like having a panel of different advisors at your disposal. There are elders who offer sage advice. There are deep thinkers that unfold facets of the topic at hand that you had not recognized as such. There are comedians and jokers. There are logicians, politicians, and craniorectal magicians. There are people just like me. There are some so different that I doubt that they are actually people.

This all boils down to a depth of opinion, though, and reasoning that you just cannot get in a classic circle of freinds or a family. It's much much more. Obviously, as with all advice you recieve, you take it with a grain of salt, but just hearing the advice, or having that argument can create stronger volition of your own views, or correct some that you were wrong about. It's like a "thought pool"

SO where will this lead?

In the far distant future, when we figure out how to accurately map thought, overcome the philosophical objectors to said activity, and become one with our computers via insertion of subcutaneous processors and data storage with wireless communication to boot, will we subscribe to "thought driven" message boards like this one, and be able to draw upon the vast experiences of our communities to make real time decisions, check facts, get emotional support, etc...? A voluntary communal conscience or consciousness? Imagine if you knew everything that all of the other peole on the cellar combined knew. If the knowledge was a quick request away. Talk about exponential advancement in all facets of our lives....

So, if you like, go ahead and cast aspersions toward those who spend a lot of time on message boards, but I for one have gotten smarter since I joined up.

jaguar · 03-21-2004, 01:11 AM

Sorry, a Cellar Hive Mind project would just lead to a global increase in conversations about whale penii.

Elspode · 03-21-2004, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumberjim
So, if you like, go ahead and cast aspersions toward those who spend a lot of time on message boards, but I for one have gotten smarter since I joined up.

But if you were already smarter than most of the people you hung around with, and you've gotten smarter, isn't this going to tend toward you having less and less contact with fewer and fewer people in the real world? Soon, you'll be reduced to nothing more than a bot, spewing out lines of seemingly coherent text and pathologically creating new Cellar group projects...

Oh. Wait. Too late. Nevermind.

I actually appreciate what you've brought to The Cellar, LJ...well, most of it, anyway. You're just so much fun to give shit to, and to receive shit from.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-21-2004, 08:26 AM

Well Jim, if you're so smart, why did you buy a house with no closets?

lumberjim · 03-21-2004, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Well Jim, if you're so smart, why did you buy a house with no closets?

that was before i joined the cellar....plus, now i get to make my very own wardrobes!

and i can get happy monkey to give me advice if i need it!

Elspode,

Do you think maybe, this is what happened to tw?

Undertoad · 03-21-2004, 09:12 AM

I say there's nothing inherently wrong with a Cellar "addiction", of course I would think that because I've had one since before it even existed. But it's always been my opinion that this is no different from hanging out with a bunch of people in any other scenario.

It's social; it's a different kind of social that the world doesn't recognize because it's all new.

In the olden days, a "man of letters" would be a title of esteem, right? This is what we are, men and women of letters.

One difference is that people who want to be smart hang out here, which puts it into a whole different category from things like Yahoo! chats and most IRC and topic-oriented bulletin boards.

wolf · 03-21-2004, 10:42 AM

Men and women of letters ...

How cool is that?

May I have "Z"?

Elspode · 03-21-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
This is what we are, men and women of letters.

Letters, and the occasional soft-porn photo.

lumberjim · 03-22-2004, 10:46 AM

I just re-read my first post, and was chagrined to note that I left out one of my main points. I guess it is inferred, but while I talked about being the smartest of my friends, i had meant to point out that there are quite a few people in here that are smarter than I, and I recognize the benefit that I take from that arrangement. It's like wrestling, or boxing or karate. If you practice with people that are better than you, you will improve. Conversely, if you hang around retards, you'll soon begin to drool yourself.

so....

warch · 03-22-2004, 11:18 AM

I dunno about the idea that this is just like a bunch of folk hanging out.

The whole private/ public thing has been wierd for me, still is. Its unique to this beast. Good and bad. Being a bodyless, faceless, at times gender neutral entity has been great. I'm able to roam,eavesdrop if not converse with a diverse field of thoughts. I like having my beliefs challenged, it makes me examine and really define them, sometimes change them. Its a form of connection that cuts through a lot of shit. And the human connections are great, addictive. hopefilled. supportive.

But new shit arrives. There is insecurity with relationships that are broadcast. Anonymity fades. There is performance. It maybe thrilling or equally disturbing. You need to define lines. In some state of intellectual or social isolation, are you using this forum to validate your exisitence some how? That's trouble. Ive had to ask myself that and smackdown the reality check. You can hang out, be yourself, with a unique illusion of intimacy. You can get to know very interesting parts of fellow dwellars, but its has its different limits.
Strange and interesting place, this.

lumberjim · 03-22-2004, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
I dunno about the idea that this is just like a bunch of folk hanging out.

The whole private/ public thing has been wierd for me, still is. Its unique to this beast. Good and bad. Being a bodyless, faceless, at times gender neutral entity has been great. I'm able to roam,eavesdrop if not converse with a diverse field of thoughts. I like having my beliefs challenged, it makes me examine and really define them, sometimes change them. Its a form of connection that cuts through a lot of shit. And the human connections are great, addictive. hopefilled. supportive.

But new shit arrives. There is insecurity with relationships that are broadcast. Anonymity fades. There is performance. It maybe thrilling or equally disturbing. You need to define lines. In some state of intellectual or social isolation, are you using this forum to validate your exisitence some how? That's trouble. Ive had to ask myself that and smackdown the reality check. You can hang out, be yourself, with a unique illusion of intimacy. You can get to know very interesting parts of fellow dwellars, but its has its different limits.
Strange and interesting place, this.

see what i mean?

smarter

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2004, 09:17 PM

Getting to know a lot about some of the dwellers, can lead to thinking you know them well, when you really don't.
I always try not to fall into that trap and make assumptions, when I should be asking. I try not to asume people want me in their life or want me for a friend, when they probably don't.

lumberjim · 03-24-2004, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Getting to know a lot about some of the dwellers, can lead to thinking you know them well, when you really don't.
I always try not to fall into that trap and make assumptions, when I should be asking. I try not to asume people want me in their life or want me for a friend, when they probably don't.

That's a hermitish attitude to take, Bruce. I don;t know how many people wouldn;t "want you as a friend". Not just you specifically, but since it's you i'm addressing, I'd say that you would be a nice addition to most people's black books. There are some people that could get annoying, but I think that is less common than you'd think. I say, you can never have too many friends.

Undertoad · 03-24-2004, 04:22 PM

Caring for Your Introvert: The habits and needs of a little-understood group, by Jonathan Rauch

lumberjim · 03-24-2004, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Caring for Your Introvert: The habits and needs of a little-understood group, by Jonathan Rauch

what stood out for me in that heavily biased article:

Quote:

Remember, someone you know, respect, and interact with every day is an introvert, and you are probably driving this person nuts. It pays to learn the warning signs.

hmmmmm....... is this a sign?

Quote:

"It is very difficult for an extrovert to understand an introvert," write the education experts Jill D. Burruss and Lisa Kaenzig. ~snip~ Extroverts are easy for introverts to understand, because extroverts spend so much of their time working out who they are in voluble, and frequently inescapable, interaction with other people.

I wouldn't be so sure about this part. There are varying degrees of introversion and extroversion. It's not a black and white thing, and while extroverts will tip their hand before an introvert will, it might be frontage only.

Quote:

As often as I have tried to explain the matter to extroverts, I have never sensed that any of them really understood. They listen for a moment and then go back to barking and yipping.

yeah, I hear what you're saying, but whatever!...let's go party!

03-21-2004, 12:31 AM	#1
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	The Value of the Cellar, and Where it May Lead As seen in the poll that I started last week, people take different things from the cellar....(or any message board like this, I suppose, but since you're in the cellar, I'll refer to this in cellar terms)..... I recognize in myself a certain obsession with it. At times, I think it's a problem, as I'm sure some of you who are subjected to me would agree, and other times, I see nothing wrong with it. So I began to think about WHY. Why do I spend so much time in here? Why do I care at all about people who, for the most part, I will never meet? Why do I spend time and effort trying to come up with ideas that will draw people in further, and commit them more strongly to the sense of community? It can be tough to examine your own motives, sometimes. My first guess was that it was an escape, like tv or reading. eh? maybe. Then I thought," It's because I have few real life friends that i can talk to about what we all talk about in here. Maybe I'll make some in here?" ......getting warmer, i think. What I realized tonight, and this may change, I don;t know, but....anyway, here's what I'm thinking: The things I put on the poll are all, individually, reasons enough to check back into the board as much as daily. And some of you do just that. But, the thing that has me checking it throughout the day while I work, and periodically in my free time, is that i like ALL of that stuff. Here's the thing: I grew up with a group of friends that were great guys, and we had great times, but I was always aware that they were very average when it came to any kind of deep thinking or abstract ponderings. vainly put, I was the smartest of my group of friends until I was in the 11th grade, and started hanging out with some guys that scored in the 1300's on their SATs, and went to college for engineering (nerds)( partying nerds, though). They were much quicker witted, and at times their banter was challenging to keep pace with. I was novel to them too, i'm sure, as I was in the main stream/tough guy clique in school, yet I understood big words, and sometimes managed to make them laugh as well. I lost touch with these guys after school, and apart from jinx, I lost touch with what I liked so much about hanging with those guys. Jinx and I are so similar in our beliefs and core philosophies, however, that really deep challenging discussions only come about if we disagree on something. the rest of the time, we just read each others eyes, faces, and sometimes minds, and we understand with a few short comments what the other person is saying, and what they really mean. I have new friends at work, but yet again, and with the possible exception of one older salesman, I am the smartest one in my circle of friends, having to dumb-down some thing I want to talk about with them. Most of these guys have good common sense, and ther are only a few that I would actually call stupid, but ...well, you know what i mean. My parents are both smart, and when my Father lived in the area, we would sit up late nights talkign shit about the universe, or computers, or women, you name it. He lives in NC, now. Shelby's sister and b-in-l are both fairly lucent, too, but most times when we're together, things tend to revolve around the kids. So, back to the cellar. What the cellar does for lumberjim. It combines friends like I have described in all of the categories i've described above, as well as a few more that I haven't, and some others like me that can go either way depending on who we're talking to, with an interface that makes interaction nearly ...interactive. It's like having a panel of different advisors at your disposal. There are elders who offer sage advice. There are deep thinkers that unfold facets of the topic at hand that you had not recognized as such. There are comedians and jokers. There are logicians, politicians, and craniorectal magicians. There are people just like me. There are some so different that I doubt that they are actually people. This all boils down to a depth of opinion, though, and reasoning that you just cannot get in a classic circle of freinds or a family. It's much much more. Obviously, as with all advice you recieve, you take it with a grain of salt, but just hearing the advice, or having that argument can create stronger volition of your own views, or correct some that you were wrong about. It's like a "thought pool" SO where will this lead? In the far distant future, when we figure out how to accurately map thought, overcome the philosophical objectors to said activity, and become one with our computers via insertion of subcutaneous processors and data storage with wireless communication to boot, will we subscribe to "thought driven" message boards like this one, and be able to draw upon the vast experiences of our communities to make real time decisions, check facts, get emotional support, etc...? A voluntary communal conscience or consciousness? Imagine if you knew everything that all of the other peole on the cellar combined knew. If the knowledge was a quick request away. Talk about exponential advancement in all facets of our lives.... So, if you like, go ahead and cast aspersions toward those who spend a lot of time on message boards, but I for one have gotten smarter since I joined up. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-21-2004, 01:11 AM	#2
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Sorry, a Cellar Hive Mind project would just lead to a global increase in conversations about whale penii. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-21-2004, 08:26 AM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Well Jim, if you're so smart, why did you buy a house with no closets? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-21-2004, 10:42 AM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Men and women of letters ... How cool is that? May I have "Z"? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-22-2004, 10:46 AM	#9
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	I just re-read my first post, and was chagrined to note that I left out one of my main points. I guess it is inferred, but while I talked about being the smartest of my friends, i had meant to point out that there are quite a few people in here that are smarter than I, and I recognize the benefit that I take from that arrangement. It's like wrestling, or boxing or karate. If you practice with people that are better than you, you will improve. Conversely, if you hang around retards, you'll soon begin to drool yourself. so.... __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-21-2004, 09:12 AM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I say there's nothing inherently wrong with a Cellar "addiction", of course I would think that because I've had one since before it even existed. But it's always been my opinion that this is no different from hanging out with a bunch of people in any other scenario. It's social; it's a different kind of social that the world doesn't recognize because it's all new. In the olden days, a "man of letters" would be a title of esteem, right? This is what we are, men and women of letters. One difference is that people who want to be smart hang out here, which puts it into a whole different category from things like Yahoo! chats and most IRC and topic-oriented bulletin boards.

03-22-2004, 11:18 AM	#10
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	I dunno about the idea that this is just like a bunch of folk hanging out. The whole private/ public thing has been wierd for me, still is. Its unique to this beast. Good and bad. Being a bodyless, faceless, at times gender neutral entity has been great. I'm able to roam,eavesdrop if not converse with a diverse field of thoughts. I like having my beliefs challenged, it makes me examine and really define them, sometimes change them. Its a form of connection that cuts through a lot of shit. And the human connections are great, addictive. hopefilled. supportive. But new shit arrives. There is insecurity with relationships that are broadcast. Anonymity fades. There is performance. It maybe thrilling or equally disturbing. You need to define lines. In some state of intellectual or social isolation, are you using this forum to validate your exisitence some how? That's trouble. Ive had to ask myself that and smackdown the reality check. You can hang out, be yourself, with a unique illusion of intimacy. You can get to know very interesting parts of fellow dwellars, but its has its different limits. Strange and interesting place, this.

03-22-2004, 09:17 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Getting to know a lot about some of the dwellers, can lead to thinking you know them well, when you really don't. I always try not to fall into that trap and make assumptions, when I should be asking. I try not to asume people want me in their life or want me for a friend, when they probably don't. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-24-2004, 04:22 PM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Caring for Your Introvert: The habits and needs of a little-understood group, by Jonathan Rauch

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)