What is a relationship?

Catwoman · 03-02-2005, 05:32 AM

It's an odd concept, really. We don't really question it in daily life, you know, he's going out with her, that's his friend, they're in love.

As we are all separate people, individuals, what is behind the notion of having a 'relationship' or connection to someone. I'm not just talking about romantic relationships - friends, family, acquaintances... whatever definition you choose to give to what is essentially regular contact with one person.

There does appear to be an inclination to attach a label to different kinds of relationships, and unfortunately with these labels come a set of rules, for example, 'you wouldn't do that if you were my friend', or 'you should spend more time with me because you're my wife'. Just examples.

Why can't we let people come and go without forming some kind of relationship?

Dagney · 03-02-2005, 05:53 AM

Because I think we're wired to look for and establish relationships between people - on many different levels.

What's the saying - I think it's 'no man is an island'...we can't exist solely on our own - perhaps it part of the process left over from when we 'needed' to work together to survive.

Dunno...interesting concept - never quite thought about it your way.

jaguar · 03-02-2005, 10:39 AM

Because it's more fun and interesting not to mention warm and fuzzy. Labels are another kettle of fish, problem i find is once you remove them it becomes hard to explain things.

Catwoman · 03-02-2005, 11:11 AM

Yeah, labels make things easier, but they aren't the truth. I'd rather take longer to understand and get it right than rush into a false conclusion, only to realise 20 years later what a huge mistake I've made.

jaguar · 03-02-2005, 11:40 AM

gah don't scare me like that! It's kind of hard to avoid the whole label thing, someone asks you, your answer may be nuanced but 99/100 times it'll be concacanated to the nearest term, girlfriend, 'seeing each other', friend, fuckbuddy..... Girlfriend in partiuclar irks the hell out of me. How much does it matter though? The real connections, the boundries, the truth] of the matter are usually unspoken and almost always elude articulation, it's a set of things you just know and feel.

wolf · 03-02-2005, 12:42 PM

We are a tribal people. The interconnections between and among us are to some extent what defines us, gives us comfort, makes us happy and frustrated.

Catwoman · 03-03-2005, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

gah don't scare me like that! It's kind of hard to avoid the whole label thing, someone asks you, your answer may be nuanced but 99/100 times it'll be concacanated to the nearest term, girlfriend, 'seeing each other', friend, fuckbuddy..... Girlfriend in partiuclar irks the hell out of me. How much does it matter though? The real connections, the boundries, the truth] of the matter are usually unspoken and almost always elude articulation, it's a set of things you just know and feel.

Yes, true, but the more words/labels/images we apply to ourselves the more difficult it is to see the 'unspoken' reality. We condition ourselves away from the very thing we are here to find out. Madness, really. Also the 'nearest term' might be completely inaccurate, like when you play snooker after pool and realise your angles were actually way off because there's less room for error.

cjjulie · 03-03-2005, 01:12 PM

We are a social being. People simply need other people. I am happily maried for almost 15 years but it just so happens I met an AWSOME man who I know I could fall completely and madly in love with. It is instant and 100% natural just as it was/is with my husband WHAT THE F**K

jaguar · 03-03-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Also the 'nearest term' might be completely inaccurate, like when you play snooker after pool and realise your angles were actually way off because there's less room for error.

Not denying that, it is the problem to a degree. On the topic of madness, read Foucault's Madness and Civilization, not a light read but you'll appreciate it, trust me.

Catwoman · 03-04-2005, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjjulie

I am happily maried for almost 15 years but it just so happens I met an AWSOME man who I know I could fall completely and madly in love with. It is instant and 100% natural just as it was/is with my husband WHAT THE F**K

This is exactly what I mean. Don't worry cj there's nothing wrong or odd about your situation. It only seems strange to you because we have accepted the idealistic (ie. wrong) idea that love is exclusive, there's one person for everyone, soulmates etc etc. In fact, love is the opposite. The only true love is the love we feel for everyone, if only we could become aware of it!

Clodfobble · 03-04-2005, 08:26 AM

Uh, hey cjjulie, before you go leave your husband because of what some hippie told you on the internet

, let me play Devil's Advocate.

Don't forget that you don't get the time to get to know this person like you did before you married your husband. A relative of mine did that--left a reasonable marriage for someone she instantly clicked with, felt that she would fall madly in love with him, and only a year or so later realized this guy had all sorts of dealbreaker faults that she would have seen had they dated, but because it was an affair there was no time to genuinely get to know each other, and now her marriage was gone and she was miserable.

Judge your marriage based on itself, not compared to what you think might happen with someone else.

Catwoman · 03-04-2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Judge your marriage based on itself, not compared to what you think might happen with someone else.

Well that's true enough. But your feelings for this other bloke are still real (although maybe only for the short term). Depends if you want to follow your instinct or preserve the perceived stability of a long-term relationship.

glatt · 03-04-2005, 09:34 AM

The whole point of marriage is that you are making a promise to choose the exclusive relationship. Of course there are more fish in the sea. You are making a promise to ignore those other fish. If you don't want to stop fishing, don't get married.

Beestie · 03-04-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjjulie

We are a social being. People simply need other people. I am happily maried for almost 15 years but it just so happens I met an AWSOME man who I know I could fall completely and madly in love with. It is instant and 100% natural just as it was/is with my husband WHAT THE F**K

Don't also forget the dues your husband has paid into the relationship. He has earned a measure of respect for that.

When you said "I do," you took yourself off the market and agreed that no other could come along "with a better offer." I'm honestly not trying to guilt trip you but I am trying to give you some ammo to resist if you are inclined to do so.

Beestie · 03-04-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

This is exactly what I mean. Don't worry cj there's nothing wrong or odd about your situation. It only seems strange to you because we have accepted the idealistic (ie. wrong) idea that love is exclusive, there's one person for everyone, soulmates etc etc. In fact, love is the opposite. The only true love is the love we feel for everyone, if only we could become aware of it!

Wrong? Its been working for several thousand years.

And how do we raise children in a world without families?

03-02-2005, 05:32 AM	#1
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	What is a relationship? It's an odd concept, really. We don't really question it in daily life, you know, he's going out with her, that's his friend, they're in love. As we are all separate people, individuals, what is behind the notion of having a 'relationship' or connection to someone. I'm not just talking about romantic relationships - friends, family, acquaintances... whatever definition you choose to give to what is essentially regular contact with one person. There does appear to be an inclination to attach a label to different kinds of relationships, and unfortunately with these labels come a set of rules, for example, 'you wouldn't do that if you were my friend', or 'you should spend more time with me because you're my wife'. Just examples. Why can't we let people come and go without forming some kind of relationship? __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-02-2005, 05:53 AM	#2
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	Because I think we're wired to look for and establish relationships between people - on many different levels. What's the saying - I think it's 'no man is an island'...we can't exist solely on our own - perhaps it part of the process left over from when we 'needed' to work together to survive. Dunno...interesting concept - never quite thought about it your way. __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

03-02-2005, 10:39 AM	#3
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Because it's more fun and interesting not to mention warm and fuzzy. Labels are another kettle of fish, problem i find is once you remove them it becomes hard to explain things. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-02-2005, 11:11 AM	#4
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Yeah, labels make things easier, but they aren't the truth. I'd rather take longer to understand and get it right than rush into a false conclusion, only to realise 20 years later what a huge mistake I've made. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-02-2005, 11:40 AM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	gah don't scare me like that! It's kind of hard to avoid the whole label thing, someone asks you, your answer may be nuanced but 99/100 times it'll be concacanated to the nearest term, girlfriend, 'seeing each other', friend, fuckbuddy..... Girlfriend in partiuclar irks the hell out of me. How much does it matter though? The real connections, the boundries, the truth] of the matter are usually unspoken and almost always elude articulation, it's a set of things you just know and feel. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-02-2005, 12:42 PM	#6
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	We are a tribal people. The interconnections between and among us are to some extent what defines us, gives us comfort, makes us happy and frustrated. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-03-2005, 01:12 PM	#8
cjjulie Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: CT Posts: 201	We are a social being. People simply need other people. I am happily maried for almost 15 years but it just so happens I met an AWSOME man who I know I could fall completely and madly in love with. It is instant and 100% natural just as it was/is with my husband WHAT THE F**K __________________ Fun,Fearless,Female

03-04-2005, 08:26 AM	#11
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Uh, hey cjjulie, before you go leave your husband because of what some hippie told you on the internet , let me play Devil's Advocate. Don't forget that you don't get the time to get to know this person like you did before you married your husband. A relative of mine did that--left a reasonable marriage for someone she instantly clicked with, felt that she would fall madly in love with him, and only a year or so later realized this guy had all sorts of dealbreaker faults that she would have seen had they dated, but because it was an affair there was no time to genuinely get to know each other, and now her marriage was gone and she was miserable. Judge your marriage based on itself, not compared to what you think might happen with someone else.

03-04-2005, 09:34 AM	#13
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	The whole point of marriage is that you are making a promise to choose the exclusive relationship. Of course there are more fish in the sea. You are making a promise to ignore those other fish. If you don't want to stop fishing, don't get married.

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