Olympic Fencing

[Griff]

There is a nice little article in the Times today on the Men's Sabre team training at Manhattan Fencing Club. Play the video to get a sense of the action in sabre. This is probably the hardest weapon to understand while watching because of the large target area (upper body/head) and the right of way rules which determine who has priority or the ability to score. It is really appealing visually even if you don't quite pick up the action.

While these guys are very good and are good enough to medal the women's team is probably regarded as our (USA's) best chance.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Pssst, over here in the alley.... wanna buy some medals? pins? tickets?

[BigV]

excruciating video replay... aaarrrrgggghhhhh... Never saw what sets apart sabre from, say, sniper. j/k... seriously, the vid didn't help a lot. I did like the end comment about the "practice sword"... hahahaha

[Griff]

This guy gives a simplified version of who is attacking. He doesn't address how the defensive person parries the blade and gains the initiative. I can follow the action pretty well now in foil but still miss it in sabre because the attacks are different and I haven't physically done it outside of messing around.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Like any sport, it's hard to grasp unless you learn it progressively. Try to explain baseball to someone, in one sitting, and I guarantee they'll go cross eyed.

[Griff]

This video has all three weapons. Sabre has the conductive mask and jacket style lame'. Foil has the vest lame'. Epee, my weapon, is simpler. Unlike sabre and foil there is no right of way beyond the harsh reality that you have to defend yourself if the other guy initiates a real attack. You can hit anywhere at any time and you don't get into the nonsense of arguing/interpreting touches, which can be political.



You can get an idea about the physicality of the bouts from that, but keep in mind that those blades which are whipping around like rubber are steel. Lil' Pete had a bout in foil one time with a very angry guy who kept missing the target and whipping (flicking) her in the legs. She took home some serious bruises, but kicked his ass!

[BigV]

So, wrt right of way, in sabre and foil, a touch that is not an attack is not scored as a point?

[BigV]

Also, in sabre, I noticed that the head is a valid target. How does the clear face shield briefly displayed in the poor NYT video communicate a touch?

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Like any sport, it's hard to grasp unless you learn it progressively. Try to explain baseball to someone, in one sitting, and I guarantee they'll go cross eyed.

That's exactly it.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by BigV

So, wrt right of way, in sabre and foil, a touch that is not an attack is not scored as a point?

That's generally right, although it is possible to lock out your opponent by hitting when it isn't your attack if the other's action is really slow. The touch should be the opponents by rule but the machine doesn't register a touch after .25(?) seconds.

Originally Posted by BigV

Also, in sabre, I noticed that the head is a valid target. How does the clear face shield briefly displayed in the poor NYT video communicate a touch?

There is a transition happening from the old grill style helmets. The new clear shield isn't conductive, giving an advantage to fencers with deeper pockets. There are a number of problems with modern sabre. It was a much different cleaner (action wise) game before electronic timing.

[Griff]

Dr. Daniel Bukantz, who was a national champion and Olympic fencer and a longtime Olympic fencing referee while pursuing a career in dentistry, died Saturday at his home in Forest Hills, Queens. He was 90.

The cause was lung cancer, said his son, Jeff, the captain of the 2004 and current United States Olympic fencing teams, continuing a seven-decade family presence in the sport.

We went to see Neil Lazar, Wednesday night, who gave us the news. They had fenced a number of times in the old days. Neil tried to call him after his birthday but couldn't reach him.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Griff

The touch should be the opponents by rule but the machine doesn't register a touch after .25(?) seconds.

IIRC one period of fencing time is 1/25th of a second, ie 0.04 seconds. I recall wondering how they decided this, and how they measured it.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Griff

Dr. Daniel Bukantz,... He was 90.

..... said his son, Jeff, the captain of the 2004

Grandson, perhaps?

Ok, Mr Smartypants is being sent to the corner now.

[Griff]

Yeah that's the right number. They've increased the point depression time to reduce flicking, but I don't know how they chose the various timings in the first place. I prefer to think it was a long week on the strip vs a long week in a committee meeting.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Grandson, perhaps?

Ok, Mr Smartypants is being sent to the corner now.

Nope son. He's the organizational captain, not an active fencing captain. He wasn't quite good enough as a fencer to make the olympics but he is a respected director (referee) at the Olympic level.