Big Oops in Pakistan

richlevy · 11-04-2007, 02:19 PM

It appears our democratic allies in the war on terror are becoming less democratic. I wonder if Bush is taking notes. I wonder what he saw when he looked into Musharraf's soul.

So this all started when we helped overthrow the government in Iran. We supported a dictator, who was overthrown by a government we didn't like. So we supported a dictator (Iraq) in a war against Iran at the same time we supported Islamist fighters in Afghanistan against a Soviet-backed government. We changed our minds about Iraq when the dictator invaded Kuwait, making our non-democratic allies in the oil producing states nervous. So we went to war with Iraq and ignored Afghanistan when the Soviets were pushed out, creating a power vacuum.

A little over 10 years later, Islamists from Saudi Arabia and a few other countries, supported by some of the Islamists we supported against the Soviets, blow up the World Trade center, so we invade Afghanistan and while we're at it invade Iraq.

Meanwhile, we rely on Saudi Arabia, which is not a democracy, as one of our allies, and pump in support to Musharraf in Pakistan, which sort of looks like a democracy on paper, like Iraq with Hussein, but whose leader seems to be taking on dictatorial powers.

And now the gloves come off and we have an open-ended state of emergency following an election, with Musharraf acting more like Hussein when he took power.

Why does our Middle East policy resemble the old lady who swallowed a fly?

From here

Quote:

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan(CNN) -- The United States will review its financial aid package to its key anti-terrorism ally Pakistan after President Gen. Pervez Musharraf imposed a state of emergency there on Saturday, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Sunday.

Quote:

Earlier Sunday Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz told reporters that the state of emergency declared in Pakistan will be imposed for "as long as it is necessary."
Aziz said no decision had yet been made as to whether parliamentary elections scheduled for January would go ahead as planned, but earlier Information Minister Tariq Azim Khan on Dubai-based GEO TV said parliamentary elections would be delayed indefinitely.
The political turmoil comes ahead of a Supreme Court ruling on whether Musharraf's recent re-election is legal.
Aziz said there could be "some timing difference" on the schedule for elections but affirmed the Pakistan leadership was still committed to democracy. He said the state of emergency had been imposed to "bring more harmony to the pillars of state" and to protect against extremism in the country.
The prime minister said that up to 500 people had been arrested so far in a round-up of judges, lawyers and political activists. Among the political activists arrested is Gen. Hameed Gull, the former head of the ISI, the Pakistani intelligence service, police officials told CNN.

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-05-2007, 02:51 AM

Since you didn't mention it, I might perhaps point out that that "government we didn't like" was and is no less undemocratic than the Shah's. That's why we wouldn't like them. That and the way they behave with our diplomatic personnel. Most undiplomatic -- and has their behavior improved much since 1977? Nope.

I might also mention that Kissinger remarked of the Iraq-Iran War, "It's a pity they both can't lose."

tw · 11-05-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

Meanwhile, we ... pump in support to Musharraf in Pakistan, which sort of looks like a democracy on paper, like Iraq with Hussein, but whose leader seems to be taking on dictatorial powers.

And now the gloves come off and we have an open-ended state of emergency following an election, with Musharraf acting more like Hussein when he took power.

Put numbers to America's support for Musharraf. That's $130 million per month - almost all in military aid. Most of it did not exist until after 2000 - the Democrats had enough smarts to stay away from Musharraf - using UG reasoning. This is how Urban Guerrilla says America will promote democracy? Musharraf even quotes (misquotes) Lincoln to prove he is the good guy. Didn't George Jr look into Musharraf's eyes to see a promoter of democracy? Would George have lied about this to Americans? Musharraf has even arrested the Chief Justice of Pakistan's Supreme Court for conspiracy again Pakistan's government. But again another Muslim leader selected for his cooperation with America. How many more Islamic nations (even Turkey) will turn against America due to George Jr's political agendas.

Never forget the discussion in Project for a New American Century that said we must protect *OUR* oil. When does civil war start in Nigeria?

TheMercenary · 11-06-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

It appears our democratic allies in the war on terror are becoming less democratic. [/url]

Somehow I don't recall our government or any persons with expertise in government exclaim that Pakistan was really a democracy.

Ibby · 11-06-2007, 08:35 AM

except, you know, our president...

TheMercenary · 11-06-2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

except, you know, our president...

Well he is a putz, and I said no one with expertise in government!

Ibby · 11-06-2007, 04:55 PM

touche.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-06-2007, 08:04 PM

But a country that beats up and jails all there lawyers, can't be all bad.

tw · 11-06-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But a country that beats up and jails all there lawyers, can't be all bad.

The lawyer today was once a royal Knight. Todays lawyers take to the streets to do battle just as in the days of old?

Spexxvet · 11-07-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Since you didn't mention it, I might perhaps point out that that "government we didn't like" was and is no less undemocratic than the Shah's...

Or Saddam's, pre-Desert Storm. He was our friend then, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Somehow I don't recall our government or any persons with expertise in government exclaim that Pakistan was really a democracy.

Wouldn't we invade them if they aren't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But a country that beats up and jails all there lawyers, can't be all bad.

I've been waiting for someone to say that.

lookout123 · 11-07-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

But a country that beats up and jails all there lawyers

i've been waiting for someone to dothat. here please. start in DC.

TheMercenary · 11-07-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Originally Posted by TheMercenary
Somehow I don't recall our government or any persons with expertise in government exclaim that Pakistan was really a democracy.

Wouldn't we invade them if they aren't?

Why would you advocate that. They had a fairly clean coupe. He was the general, moved in and became king. Kicked out all the potential opposition. No one officially ever claimed or believed that it was a democracy.

11-05-2007, 02:51 AM	#2
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Since you didn't mention it, I might perhaps point out that that "government we didn't like" was and is no less undemocratic than the Shah's. That's why we wouldn't like them. That and the way they behave with our diplomatic personnel. Most undiplomatic -- and has their behavior improved much since 1977? Nope. I might also mention that Kissinger remarked of the Iraq-Iran War, "It's a pity they both can't lose." __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-06-2007, 08:35 AM	#5
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	except, you know, our president... __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

11-06-2007, 04:55 PM	#7
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	touche. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

11-06-2007, 08:04 PM	#8
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	But a country that beats up and jails all there lawyers, can't be all bad. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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