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#1 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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Eleventh Day, Eleventh Month
November the eleventh is Veterans' Day in the United States. Once we called it Armistice Day, and it got its name from the ceasefire at the end of the Great War.
I put my Navy Veteran hat on; the wife put her Navy Retired hat on. Today happened to be my day for duty as lay Eucharistic Minister at church -- time was, we included "Lay" in the title for the friendly acronym LEM, but no more, and really too bad, I think. During the Prayers of the People, I made particular mention of one of our fellow parishioners' relatives who is out there at the sharp end and has been a fixture on the prayer list for a long time. After the service I found we had another parishioner's nephew just assigned to duty in Iraq. We will be remembering these in our prayers. Treating our armed forces members properly is a thing that is bonding a society that had been struggling with centrifugal effects for some while now. Whatever our squawks and squabbles, there's more a sense of "us" in America these days than once there was. It's a good thing. BigV and I fight like wombats over about every second question of policy, foreign and domestic. I still like him for his kind remarks about veterans, how long ago now? (I ain't sayin'.) A guy shows his heart is in the right place, that counts, and for a lot. A good many of us are more united on the fundamentals than we ever let on. But it won't hurt -- not much -- to let on, on occasion. It's not too long now until Thankful Turkey Day. I think I'm going to keep my blessings in mind. To all the Dwellars who went to the trouble of wearing their country's uniform and learning to salute, remember that we thank you, and heartily. There were other things you might have chosen to do, but you spent some time being your society's protectors.
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#2 |
That's some bad hat, Harry.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 83
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What a beautiful post, UG, thanks for being the first.
To all who have put your life on the line, now and in the past, our family thanks you. God Bless! |
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#3 | |
Only looks like a disaster tourist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: above 7,000 feet
Posts: 7,208
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Here is an interesting article written by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman called "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs." It's an excerpt from "On Combat."
It's long, but I thought it was worth spending a few minutes reading. Here's the first part: Quote:
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#4 |
polaroid of perfection
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 24,185
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I didn't serve, but members of my family did during WWII.
I was brought up to take Remembrance Day very seriously. I watched the laying of the wreaths on television and cried a little, as usual. I observed the two minutes silence and thought of the fallen. It's a sober time of year, but well worth it.
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Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac |
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#5 |
St Petersburg, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,423
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() *civilian salute* Thanks UG and all other veterans. Whether you washed the laundry on a carrier during peacetime or were the toughest, baddest ass in combat....most sincerly, thank you. HLJ - good article too. True, it's long but well placed. |
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#6 |
Doctor Wtf
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
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I can't remember the exact quote, nor who said it, but it is something like this:
Peaceful people sleep safely in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Nowadays they're not all rough, and they're not all men, but in this imperfect world, we still need them. I will argue about the politician's decisions where to send them and when, but I don't blame the troops for being where they are or were. I don't salute with my arm because I don't know how to do it properly and don't want to pretend to be something I'm not. Instead I stand still at the appropriate times, and very sincerely lower my head.
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Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. |
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#7 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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That was Orwell, Zen.
Ex military guys do salute, after the manner of their nation, although being no longer in the service they are by no means under any obligation to do so. The American salute shows the edge of the hand, either with index finger touching the brim of the cap or landing just above the right eyebrow, wrist, fingers and thumb all straight, upper arm ending up pretty much horizontal. The hand comes up in more or less a straight line from the hand being at the side, and returns by the same path. The Army and the Air Force may salute uncovered, that is without a cap on, indoors and the like. The Navy and Marines insist on one's either being under arms or with a cap on, and don't salute indoors for this reason -- it's against regs to keep a hat on indoors unless you're getting Article-Fifteened or court martialed. The somewhat showier British salute shows the palm of the hand, wrist and fingers straight, sweeping up to cap brim or brow, by the rubric of "longest way up, shortest way down," so there's this big swoop of the open hand going up, stopping suddenly just so at the brow, then cutting straight down. The hand or the hat over the heart is what the civilian does.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. |
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#8 |
Only looks like a disaster tourist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: above 7,000 feet
Posts: 7,208
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UG - very nice description. The only thing you didn't mention is that, at least as far as I know, the salute is always done with the right hand.
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#9 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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Almost always. Under the specific ceremonial circumstance of piping a senior naval officer aboard ship, the Boatswain's Mate doing the piping, his right hand being occupied with his bosuns' whistle, will make do saluting said officer with his left. AFAIK, no one else anywhere goes to this kind of trouble.
The "rifle salute" if that's what it's called, is something I can't speak with authority on -- where your saluting hand goes to the stacking swivel of your rifle at Order Arms. Seems only to be done by sentries posted at the front door, and isn't much practiced nowadays. Though I did find this about rifle salutes on an Anzac Day page, last paragraph. I think the US military adheres to a similar standard. A US manual from quite a few years back
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 11-14-2007 at 01:28 AM. |
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#10 |
Only looks like a disaster tourist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: above 7,000 feet
Posts: 7,208
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When I was in boot camp I saluted with my left hand and haven't forgotten the response.
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#11 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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Wow. I can imagine. You a leftie, or were you striking for Boatswain's Mate a bit too early?
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. |
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#12 | |
Doctor Wtf
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
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Quote:
Just wondering ... what about those whose right arm is, say, broken and in a cast? Or missing entirely? Whats the rule there?
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Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. |
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#13 |
We have to go back, Kate!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
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For Remembrance day I went to my ward's main service, along with my ward colleague and the local branch members of the Royal British Legion (of which I am non-serving member). It was, as usual very moving. The reading of the exhortation, the last post with the lowering standard, always brings a prickle to the back of my eyes. The reading of the names on the church monument, the laying of the wreath. I know it means such a lot to the servicemen and women whose branch of the legion I share.
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#14 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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ZenG, if one cannot salute -- usually for something more mundane like carrying a large box -- one greets the officer courteously, with a sturdy military "sir." He will return the salute implied in the salutation.
Enlisted salute officers; officers salute everyone. HLJ's use of "boot camp" says he was Navy or Marines. Army and Air Force say "basic," as in "Basic Training." Worst saluting booboo I ever did was just glimpsing a Navy Chief when I was hastening to class and saluting him. Chief Petty Officers are the equivalent of Sergeants First Class, Master Sergeants, and upwards, very definitely enlisted. All I saw was metal insignia on collar, which the chiefs wear, and didn't have a good picture of its nature, so I saluted and he laughed at me. I think he did return the salute, as it is rather a conditioned reflex, but he did suggest I pay a bit more attention. After all, Navy officers wear metal on the collar too, on the uniform they usually wear, but under salutin' conditions they wear more metal, a great deal of it on their hats. Enlisted men have plain chinstraps or piping, while officers have metal chinstraps or metalized piping. Everyone but the Air Force uses gold metal chinstraps, while the Air Force goes with silver, and for senior officers, silver thunder-and-lightning embroidery on the cap bill rather than the gold oakleaves everyone else uses. The Army is famous for metal bits and insignia about everywhere, while the Marines are famous for metal almost nowhere -- almost the only shiny bit on a Marine enlisted Class A uniform, a forest-green outfit that looks straight out of the First World War but isn't, is a marksmanship badge.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 11-14-2007 at 09:08 PM. |
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#15 | |
Only looks like a disaster tourist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: above 7,000 feet
Posts: 7,208
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Quote:
Yes, up until then I was left-handed. |
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