Australian scam?

[Griff]

My MIL Jan is a trusting soul but even she is getting nervous about this one. I assume the rip-off is in the shipping and the credit card. Can someone put this together for me so I can explain it clearly to her? Maybe the "shipper" shows up early to con his way into getting the package...




On Friday, June 4, 2010, at 11:11 AM, "Orson" wrote:

Jan,

Thanks for your response and your effort on my order.

I know it not your business to charge shipping fees to my shipper and I understand how you feel BUT I want you to help me out because have put my vote of confidence in you and you are the only person in the right place to do it for me now so that my shipper can ship all my goods including the one's am ordering from you at one's.

You will not have any problem with my shipper when they come for the pick-up at your place. I'll make sure I email you the details you will be needing to identify them when they come for the pick up.

Lastly, I know it will be easier to ship the prints yourself but I want my goods & the prints to be shipped together and my things would be much safer with my shipper. Try and understand and am ready to increase your compensation fees.

Await to read from you soon

Regards

Orson











On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 7:02 AM, MIL wrote:

Orson,
This all sounds OK but I am totally unfamiliar with the process. My husband says there is a Western Union office nearby so I can do the transaction there. I don't know what a logistic agent is so of course I will need some kind of name and address. Do I give anything to the person who comes to pick up the package? I'm very confused.

Wouldn't it be simpler for me to take it to UPS? The shipping costs are similar and it's easy and fast and a clean transaction. I trust UPS to get the prints there safely. I will charge your credit card for the merchandise amount plus the shipping cost and it's done....easy and simple and will be less of a cost for you. I can get it off today and you will have it in 3 to 4 days.

Do you have any problem with this?
Jan



On Friday, June 4, 2010, at 01:23 AM, Orson wrote:

Jan,

Thanks for your swift response.

The total cost of my order is quite correct and OK by me. But I just got a response from my logistic agent that he cannot receive payment via credit or debit card from me at the moment. So I want you to help me charge another $380 to my logistic agent who is going to pick up my items from you.

The $380 that will be sent to my logistic agent is for the shipping of my order in your store plus some other items I have ordered from other stores around your locality which will be deduct from my credit card. Also, I'm compensating you with the sum of $150 for the transfer fee and for your efforts. Please note that I should have given the shipping agency my credit card for him to deduct the shipping funds but he told me that he doesn't have the facilities to charge or debit credit card, so that's why I bring my vote of confidence in you and I don't want you to betray the vote of confidence I put in you. So I want you to transfer the funds to him after you have make the charges and the money charged from my credit card is in your account, then you can now make the transfer to my logistic agent via western union. I will have love to do this myself but there no western union here around me. So the charges you'll make on my credit card will be:

Order fee: ($507)
Agent fee with shipping fare: ($380)
Transfer fee plus your compensation: ($150)
Total: ($1,037.00)

Note that my credit card will be charged for the amounts above. Please do get back to me if you are in the office right now so that I can forward my credit card details to you, then you can charge full amount and transfer the agent funds to him via western union but make sure you email me after charging my card details so that I can give you my agent details to send the money to.

Hope to read from you as soon as possible.

Warmly Regards

Orson














On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:22 PM, MIL wrote:

Hi,
That sounds good. The total for the framed prints is $507.00.
My address is:
deleted
The package is ready now and can be picked up at any time. I don't have a store front. I have a studio in my home and sell from there. If they call first I will make sure to be home when they come to pick it up.

I want to come too. Have you lived in Australia all your life?
Jan


On Thursday, June 3, 2010, at 04:06 PM, Orson wrote:

Jan,

Thanks for your effort on my order.

I want you calculate the total cost of my order ONLY and don't worry about the shipping because I just got a response from my personal logistic agent in US that will come for the pick up of the items at your address and it will only take 2-3days Express Shipping to my shipping address and I've inform them about this and they told me the best way to come for the pick up in your store is for you to email me with your store address and the time the items will be ready for pick up with your convenience time & date.

So please kindly get back to me with this details for pick up, so that I can give you my credit card details to charge the payment now.

Thanks for working out my budget with me.

Warmly Regards

Orson








On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM,MIL wrote:

Hi,
I just returned from UPS and the US Postal Service. There is quite a big difference between the two quotes:

UPS $327.82 and it will take 3 to 4 days, includes insurance
USPS $100.40 includes insurance coverage for $107.33
That will take 5 to 7 business days.

Both methods require a customs declaration be filled out. I haven't looked at it yet but will email you if I have any questions.

The package weighs 14lb12oz
The pieces are pretty well protected with bubble wrap. Shall we go with USPS even though I haven't had the best experience with them compared to UPS?

The total cost for the 7 framed prints is $507.00 plus the cost of shipping.

I await your answer.
Jan



On Thursday, June 3, 2010, at 11:41 AM, Orson wrote:

Jan,

Sounds good. Just email me as soon as you get the shipping cost, so that I can email you all everything you need for the shipping.

Await to read from you soon

Regards

Orson



On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:25 AM, MIL wrote:

Orson,
I'll get this order put together today and get it to UPS for the shipping charges. Before we send it along may I remind you they will need your phone number before they will ship.
I'll get back to you later.
Jan


On Thursday, June 3, 2010, at 03:39 AM, Orson wrote:

Jan,

Thanks for your effort on my order.

Go ahead and choose from the frame prints you have in stock.

My wife owns a big restaurant and some of the prints would be hanged there and some in would be hanged in our new house.

Await the total cost from you soon.

Regards

Orson







On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:36 AM, MIL wrote:

Orson,
I can get to this right away if I can choose from the framed prints I have in stock. If you want specific frame colors it will take a little longer. The frames will be either satin silver, satin gold, satin black or hunter green on the frog.

UPS also needs a phone number. I have a long standing relationship with UPS and trust that they will get the items to you safely.

When I get your go ahead I will carefully package the prints and take the box to UPS for an estimate. I'll email the total amount to you and won't ship it until you say to. I'll also ask them for an estimated date of arrival.

Tell me about yourself. I like to know where my prints will be living.
Jan


On Wednesday, June 2, 2010, at 01:12 AM, Orson wrote:

Jan,

Thank for your swift response. I would like to proceed with my order via email and here are the items needed below:

<prints deleted>

I will like you to get back to me with the total cost plus shipping cost and here is my shipping address for you to calculate the shipping cost via UPS, Fedex or DHL or any other alternative shipping company.

Please kindly get back to me if this items is in stock because I do not want any delay on this.

Shipping Address:
<deleted>

Await to read from you soon.

Warmly Regards

Orson















On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:43 PM, MIL wrote:

I asked at the UPS store today about shipping to Australia. She said she would need the wt. and dimensions of the package, it's destination and a phone number before she could give an estimate for the shipping cost. At that point you can decide if the cost of shipping is an amount you would be willing to add to your invoice. You ARE pretty far away, about as far as you can be from here.

How do you know about my work?
Let me know if you'd like to proceed and which prints you might be interested in.

Thanks for the inquiry. Hoping to hear from you soon. Maybe I'll come and deliver them myself. I've always wanted to go to Australia....don't take me seriously as it's not possible.
Jan
On Tuesday, June 1, 2010, at 05:03 AM, Orson wrote:

Hi,

I am Orson ______ and I'll like to order some items from your store but before we proceed I'll like to ask the following questions.

Do you ship to Australia?
Do you do Mail Order?
Do you accept credit card as for Payment?

I await your urgent response so we can proceed.

Orson

[Griff]

From:MIL
Date: Fri Jun 4, 2010 6:29:23 PM US/Eastern
To: "Orson"
Subject: Re: Bear with me

OK.. walk me through this step by step so I'll know exactly what to do. Will I need to fill out a customs slip or will your guy be doing that? The package is ready to go so just let me know what to do to get your pickup guy here to get it. I'll put your credit card charges through and do the Western Union thing. What does a logistics agent do? What is the currency in Australia? Tell me more about who your shipper is (pick up person) so I'll know it's him and can get some kind of receipt. Where are the other things you've ordered coming from and how does he get it all coordinated? It sounds so complicated, any explanation to simplify it for me will help.
Thanks,
Jan

[Griff]

From: Orson
Date: Sat Jun 5, 2010 2:35:04 AM US/Eastern
To: MIL
Subject: More Clearer....

Jan,

Thanks for waiting to read from me and for your effort on my order.

There is no stress in what you want to do for me and that is why I want to compensate you.

Firsly, you don't need to fill out any customs slip/form, my shipper would take care of everything. All you need to do is to get the package ready at your address and I'll notify you when my shipper would be coming for the pick up and all the details you will need to identify him when he comes. Logistic Agent also means shipping agent, OK.

Secondly, you don't need to send the shipping fees my shipper in Australian $$$. You are going to send it to my shipper in USD, OK.

I'll make sure I emailed you all my shipper's details, so that you can identify them when they come for pick up and have ordered some order items around you like sculptures, engagement & wedding band which I want everything to be picked up at once plus the prints I ordered from you.

Please understand me and that is why I put my vote of confidence in you to help me charge the shipping fees to my shipper.

Let me know if I can email you my cc details to charge now so that we can proceed.

Regards

Orson.

[Griff]

Clearly a scam, now how do I convince someone who believes everyone is good to stop communicating with this guy?

[glatt]

I have to admit that I didn't read the whole thing, but is he asking her to pad the credit card bill by an extra couple hundred bucks, and then she pays her own cash to the shipper? If she's putting her own cash into the deal, and then he disputes the card charges, she's left holding the bag. Or if the credit card number is a freshly stolen one and the transaction cancelled later by the card company, she's again left holding the bag.

She should insist that he pay her, and he pay the shipper. She shouldn't pay anything. She's probably violating the terms of her deal with the credit card company if she gives him what is basically a cash advance.

[Griff]

I think you nailed it, paying extra to use a shipper who does not use credit cards seems to be the red flag to focus on... My MIL hates it when people tell her what to do, so now I must carefully get her to see the scam for what it is. Thanks Glatt, I think you've given me the angle I need. g

[glatt]

I don't know how credit card payments are processed, but my gut tells me that he doesn't want to buy anything, that the address is fake, that the "shipper" doesn't exist, and that once she sends him the money, she'll find out that the credit card payment somehow doesn't go through.

As a rule though, strangers on the internet asking you to send money someplace by Western Union are always a scam.

[HungLikeJesus]

One thing I noticed was the grammatical and spelling mistakes, similar to some of the Nigerian e-mails.

Have you looked at any of the 419 sites, like this?

[glatt]

And can you look at the details of his e-mail address to see if he's even from Australia?

[HungLikeJesus]

Do you remember this one?
http://www.thescambaiter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109

[Griff]

She is pulling the plug on this deal. She talked to the guy who sets up her CC processing account who immediately waved her off.

His addy is a gmail account. I looked at the real world address which looks like a restaurant in Randwick NSW, Australia. Dudes English is getting worse and worse. I expect the abusive language to start soon, but she has promised she is done responding.

[Clodfobble]

She's lucky to have you looking out for her, Griff.

Interestingly, I read a study awhile back that indicated that people really are more gullible as they age, it's not just a function of the culture/time they grew up in. The part of the brain that detects falsehoods, sarcasm, and nuances like that is one of the earliest to deteriorate in old age. They showed people of increasing age these sets of videos, where actors were playing out a basic scene, but with over-the-top sarcasm and eye-rolling...

Woman: Hey, how are you?
Man: Oh, I'm just great.
Woman: Did you have a good time at the party last night?
Man: Yeah, it was awesome. There were just tons of people there...

The older they were, the more likely they were to say, "Oh yes, the young man had a very nice time at his party." And the parts of the brains that were lighting up in the people who said he obviously had a rotten time weren't lighting up in the old people who were missing it.

[ZenGum]

Well done, Griff.

Please mention to your MIL that there is an amazing business opportunity open if she is interested in doing business in Australia.
I can't say too much just yet, but a *very* well known bridge in Sydney is about to be declared unsafe, torn down, and rebuilt. I know the chap who is in charge of selling off the steel in the old bridge for scrap, and for a generous consideration, can make sure she gets the contract.
Please forward my details immediately.

[xoxoxoBruce]

This makes me feel better.

GILLARD = FAIL!!!
In the wake of the insanity which took over Australian politics last week I thought this would make interesting reading. Let's run the numbers...

-Admission that political advisers to the government have botched decisions resulting in a cost something in the order of $20 billion.
-Boat refugees that have chosen to skip Nauru and go home again given $3000 each by the government as "compensation".
-The pursuit of a temporary seat for Oz on the UN Security Council has, to date, cost a reported $40 million.
-1000 new cotton/rice farms have been permitted to open in the Eastern States during the last 12 months.
-A revenue shortfall tipped this year of $25 billion whilst the country's borrowings exceeds $240 billion and continues to rise.
-Gillard announces a $6.5 billion School Education Funding plan but is unable to say how it will be funded.
-Dental care plan for children announced by Plibersek at a cost of $2 billion but she can't say how it will be funded either.
-The price of "spin doctors" presently employed by the Federal Labor Government now costing $150 million a year.
-Each public service employee was given a bonus of $1000 to "head off industrial unrest" at a total cost of $33 million.
-$320 million was promised by Gillard at the Pacific Forum Conference to help increase the number of female politicians in the Pacific.
-The Treasurer suggested planning to further tax the nation's $1.4 trillion superannuation funds in an attempt to balance his 2013 budget.

-Australian Funding for Indonesia - 2012/13 - $578.4 million.
-National Broadband Network way behind schedule and blown out by another $1 billion. Total cost of the project - $43 billion. Expert opinion is that this cable system will be outdated long before it is finished being replaced by wireless broadband.
-Failed Pink Batts Insulation Scheme - Cost $3.45 billion plus $424 million extra to repair the mess left by Minister Garret's inefficiency.
-An audit has revealed that the $540 million government scheme to boost literacy and numeracy in schools has totally failed.
-An enquiry has revealed that the $16.2 billion "Building the Education Revolution"(BER) programme (administered personally by Gillard) has totally failed. A number of schools destined for closure and demolition in the near future had new buildings erected during the scheme.
-A headline from Adelaide's "The Advertiser" in 2009 ... "OUR FUTURE MARKED BY RISING RIVERS OF RED INK".
-The cost of recording the first round of Carbon Tax commercials was $350,000 followed by $340,000 for the second round. That's $690,000 before buying any airtime. Estimates also heard that the Government is planning another round of advertising to sell the Carbon Tax Labor promised not to introduce. And in anticipation of that, the creative advertising agency involved has had its contract increased by 50% to $3 million.
-A planned National Disability Insurance Scheme... $10 billion - promised but unfunded.
-Planned Child Care Subsidies... $1.4 billion - promised but unfunded.
-The Immigration Department revealed that about $2 million has been spent flying 260 asylum seekers from Christmas Island to Nauru - averaging more than $7,600 per asylum seeker.

-Nineteen lawyers worked on the Government's defence of the Slipper/Ashby case at a cost of $780,000 to date.
-A portrait of Peter Slipper in his "Speaker's Robes" destined to hang in the halls of Parliament has been commissioned at a cost of $30,000.
-Bureaucratic Excesses: The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry spent $21,000 on a single dinner. The Department of Industry spent $75,000 on just five coffee machines.
-Fair Work Australia has so far spent more than $1.8 million on external legal and accounting advice for its investigation into the rorting of Health Services Union funds.
-$79,700 was spent building three fake kitchens for the Government's Carbon Tax advertising campaigns. Using real kitchens would have cost $5,000 a day.
-More than 10,000 asylum seekers arrived by boat so far this year - five times as many as Wayne Swan estimated when framing his Budget. The budget estimate of $1.1 billion was based on an average of 450 arrivals per month but actual arrivals are running at 5 times more on an average of 2,400 per month.
-While departmental officials refused to be drawn on the cost of the Budget blow-out we do know that in 2011/12 every boat that arrived cost taxpayers $12.8 million, or more than $172,700 for every person on board.

-The present Social Security and Welfare Budget for 12 months is, in round figures, $131 Billion. Assuming that there are 3 million Australians eligible for this that equates to $43,885 per person per annum. The current age pension is $15,132 per person per annum so the question remains - where does the other $28,753 go? Surely not administration? Meanwhile Gillard has vehemently stated her opposition to pension increases for non-Labor voting pensioners. ("Sieg Heil Comrade mate?")
-Gillard announced a whitepaper - "The Asian Century" - where Asian languages will be taught in all Australian schools for us to "better communicate with our Asian neighbours". The cost will be $6 billion which is, again, unfunded whilst an implementation strategy has yet to be formed. Fact: As there are many Asian languages and dialects most Asian business transactions are presently conducted in English.
-Gillard announces her "Plan to Save the Murray". Quote: "We can deliver the extra water by investing $1.8 billion in infrastructure, water efficiency and fixing constraints like raising low bridges so more water can flow". Unquote. Raising bridges so more water can flow?? Can somebody tell the fool that bridges, no matter how high or low, do not normally restrict water flow?
-Water Fact 1: Gillard has "found" 450 billion litres of water at a cost of $1.8 billion to "Save the Murray".
Water Fact 2: Cubby Station is licensed to take 460 mega litres a year from the river. 460 mega litres = 460 billion litres so, by closing Cubby Station the problem is solved and $1.8 billion is saved. Where do we send our account?

-Further Fabulous Failures: Grocery Watch; Fuel Watch; $1 billion Cash for Clunkers failure; 450 GP Super Clinics promised... only 3 delivered; $2.1 billion promise of a "Laptop for every child; $275 million "Green Loans" debacle; $534 million Solar Panel Rebate suddenly withdrawn; Promise to build 222 Child Care centres - abandoned.
-$38.5 million spent for a pro-mining tax advertising campaign.
-The gross Australian Federal Debt as at August 31st 2012 was $244,325,881,000.
($244.3 billion) and continues to grow at $100 million a day. That's two hundred and forty four billion, three hundred and twenty five million, eight hundred and eighty one thousand dollars!)
-A random quote from "The Punch". Headline quote: "Gillard and Swan are Failures, Not Leaders". Quote from the text: "Mr Swan has undermined Australia's international standings and jeopardised our economy. He should have been sent to the back bench, not made Treasurer and Deputy Prime Minister". Unquote.
-And we won't even mention the 3 or 4 year "protection" given to Craig Thomson by Gillard. Thomson being the Health Services Union man who, by his statement "had his credit card stolen" by "someone unknown" to "pay for prostitutes" and then "put back in his wallet again"... several times in fact!!

We are not alone...

[ZenGum]

Mate, the whole country is a scam, based on a con. Possibly inside an enigma, whatever the hell that is.

Oh and that list is about as fair and impartial as, say, a post by The Merc.