Mental Health and discrimination

monster · 08-14-2013, 08:03 PM

an interesting article about doctors discriminating against people suffering from mental illness

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/op...anted=all&_r=0

xoxoxoBruce · 08-14-2013, 08:15 PM

I wonder why?

Why waste my time?
This could get real complicated and time consuming?
I don't want to risk a lawsuit?
My malpractice Insurance is already too high?
Company policy?

monster · 08-14-2013, 08:41 PM

I would suspect the second, but my level of knowledgeis on a par with a cube of jello. My shrink friend posted it on facebook and I was drawn by the title.

wolf · 08-14-2013, 10:45 PM

When a crazy guy walls in to the ER, the doctor sees crazy first and patient second. I have had several patients die because they were known as frequent flyers and actually were having heart attacks, stomach cancer, appendicitis, and seizures, to name a few.

monster · 08-15-2013, 07:22 AM

BUT the author of the article doesn't have visible crazy -they started discriminating once they were told of the mental illness (bi-polar).

We're all a little weird here in the cellar and some of us have mental illness, but are we really "crazies"?

Is all mental illness "crazy"? Maybe you're one of them?

Clodfobble · 08-15-2013, 08:22 AM

Because unlike physical disabilities, there is a tendency to believe that a person's behavior--no matter how clearly linked to a chemical imbalance or neuronal pattern difference--is still fundamentally their choice, their fault.

It's not about blaming the victim though, it's about the observer feeling powerless: if that mentally ill person is not ultimately responsible for their behavior on some level, then the sane person also cannot take credit for their mental stability. If we're just bags of chemicals and it's all a crapshoot, then you don't get to feel good about anything you've accomplished in your life. Blaming the mentally ill is just a logical continuation of a human being's basic ego.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-15-2013, 10:50 AM

Well, anyone different than me is obviously flawed, so if they don't limp I have to assume they're crazy.

Oh wait... maybe I'm crazy and they're not... or we're both nuts... but I limp a lot... hmm... nevermind.

monster · 08-15-2013, 12:25 PM

perhaps it's your nuts causing the limp?

in either sense of the word

But seriously, this is alarming, isn't it? That members of the medical profession who ought to know better allow their illogical prejudices to affect their treatment of a patient in such a serious way

xoxoxoBruce · 08-15-2013, 01:03 PM

They're a little smarter maybe, better educated for sure, larger egos from what I've seen, but still human, with all the warts and flaws, not gods.

It's a high pressure job and if they suspect someone of making it tougher, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go into defense mode.

Gravdigr · 08-15-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...not gods...

I'm not so sure, Bruce. I think most of us say "My God!" every time we see the doctor bill. So...

monster · 08-15-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They're a little smarter maybe, better educated for sure, larger egos from what I've seen, but still human, with all the warts and flaws, not gods.

It's a high pressure job and if they suspect someone of making it tougher, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go into defense mode.

Yebbut..... how is someone with bi-polar whose mental condition isn't noticeable until drug info is shared making a doctor's life harder? I agree if it's someone demanding drugs for a complaint that hard to verify......

Clodfobble · 08-15-2013, 06:28 PM

Possibly because the doctor doubts the diagnostic assessment that lead to the prescription in the first place... As one example, I take an anti-seizure med that has been, in recent years, rampantly prescribed off-label for depression. The last two times I went to the hospital, there were multiple times where I would give my current medications and various assistants or doctors would say, "...for depression?" When I said, "No, for partial temporal lobe seizures," they would look surprised.

Meanwhile, many years ago when I was first trying to get the seizures diagnosed, I had a doctor tell me they were just run-of-the-mill panic attacks and try to brush me off with a quick prescription for Xanax. I told him I wasn't going to take it because I knew that's not what was going on, and he made me take the paper anyway, "because you might change your mind." Psych meds are so common now that many doctors assume they've been wrongly over-prescribed until proven otherwise. Scorn is a doctor's natural demeanor.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-15-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Yebbut..... how is someone with bi-polar whose mental condition isn't noticeable until drug info is shared making a doctor's life harder?

If they are legitimately bi-polar and taking drugs for it, there's a good chance it will make the treatment of anything else more complicated.

orthodoc · 08-15-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Scorn is a doctor's natural demeanor.

I suppose I'll die with a scornful look on my face, then.

Yes, bipolar meds make things more complicated. However, it's been my experience, having raised children with mental health disorders, that nurses are more prone to labeling and stigmatizing.

monster · 08-15-2013, 07:21 PM

I have many nurse friends/acquaintances, but away from their work (which is where I see them) most of them strike me as the people least likely to become nurses. maybe they save all their empathy for the patients. The one I know best certainly says some horrible things about the families of her patients, much of them stereotyping/labeling-type comments that make me very uncomfortable. But she deals with children with cancer and I suspect it's a mechanism to stop her "caring too much". But I think I might be more concerned if she were deciding the course of treatment.

08-14-2013, 08:03 PM	#1
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Mental Health and discrimination an interesting article about doctors discriminating against people suffering from mental illness http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/op...anted=all&_r=0 __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

08-14-2013, 08:15 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I wonder why? Why waste my time? This could get real complicated and time consuming? I don't want to risk a lawsuit? My malpractice Insurance is already too high? Company policy? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-14-2013, 08:41 PM	#3
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	I would suspect the second, but my level of knowledgeis on a par with a cube of jello. My shrink friend posted it on facebook and I was drawn by the title. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

08-14-2013, 10:45 PM	#4
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	When a crazy guy walls in to the ER, the doctor sees crazy first and patient second. I have had several patients die because they were known as frequent flyers and actually were having heart attacks, stomach cancer, appendicitis, and seizures, to name a few. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-15-2013, 07:22 AM	#5
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	BUT the author of the article doesn't have visible crazy -they started discriminating once they were told of the mental illness (bi-polar). We're all a little weird here in the cellar and some of us have mental illness, but are we really "crazies"? Is all mental illness "crazy"? Maybe you're one of them? __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

08-15-2013, 08:22 AM	#6
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Because unlike physical disabilities, there is a tendency to believe that a person's behavior--no matter how clearly linked to a chemical imbalance or neuronal pattern difference--is still fundamentally their choice, their fault. It's not about blaming the victim though, it's about the observer feeling powerless: if that mentally ill person is not ultimately responsible for their behavior on some level, then the sane person also cannot take credit for their mental stability. If we're just bags of chemicals and it's all a crapshoot, then you don't get to feel good about anything you've accomplished in your life. Blaming the mentally ill is just a logical continuation of a human being's basic ego. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

08-15-2013, 10:50 AM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Well, anyone different than me is obviously flawed, so if they don't limp I have to assume they're crazy. Oh wait... maybe I'm crazy and they're not... or we're both nuts... but I limp a lot... hmm... nevermind. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-15-2013, 12:25 PM	#8
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	perhaps it's your nuts causing the limp? in either sense of the word But seriously, this is alarming, isn't it? That members of the medical profession who ought to know better allow their illogical prejudices to affect their treatment of a patient in such a serious way __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

08-15-2013, 01:03 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They're a little smarter maybe, better educated for sure, larger egos from what I've seen, but still human, with all the warts and flaws, not gods. It's a high pressure job and if they suspect someone of making it tougher, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go into defense mode. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-15-2013, 06:28 PM	#12
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Possibly because the doctor doubts the diagnostic assessment that lead to the prescription in the first place... As one example, I take an anti-seizure med that has been, in recent years, rampantly prescribed off-label for depression. The last two times I went to the hospital, there were multiple times where I would give my current medications and various assistants or doctors would say, "...for depression?" When I said, "No, for partial temporal lobe seizures," they would look surprised. Meanwhile, many years ago when I was first trying to get the seizures diagnosed, I had a doctor tell me they were just run-of-the-mill panic attacks and try to brush me off with a quick prescription for Xanax. I told him I wasn't going to take it because I knew that's not what was going on, and he made me take the paper anyway, "because you might change your mind." Psych meds are so common now that many doctors assume they've been wrongly over-prescribed until proven otherwise. Scorn is a doctor's natural demeanor. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

08-15-2013, 07:21 PM	#15
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	I have many nurse friends/acquaintances, but away from their work (which is where I see them) most of them strike me as the people least likely to become nurses. maybe they save all their empathy for the patients. The one I know best certainly says some horrible things about the families of her patients, much of them stereotyping/labeling-type comments that make me very uncomfortable. But she deals with children with cancer and I suspect it's a mechanism to stop her "caring too much". But I think I might be more concerned if she were deciding the course of treatment. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

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