Amnesty Intl protests Iraqi TV station bombing

Undertoad · 03-27-2003, 10:33 AM

some info

At one time, I gave a good chunk of money to Amnesty International. I couldn't think of a better place to give money to; they were protesting torture and terrible treatment of prisoners worldwide and appeared to really be making a difference. What an important goal.

The left used to be against that sort of thing. Times have changed. Now they are against the use of US force, no matter what that force is meant to do. Yesterday AI issued a news release saying that the US shouldn't have taken out the TV station in Baghdad, because that's civilian.

Taking out the propaganda machine of a brutal dictatorship that may have been using the broadcasts to send information to its troops... is a bad thing to these jagoffs.

Iraq led the world in torture over the last decade. Amnesty International seeks to maintain that situation.

I guess it's good for donations.

elSicomoro · 03-27-2003, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Now they are against the use of US force, no matter what that force is meant to do.

That's an awfully broad brush you're using, don't you think? I suspect many "leftists" (is there really much of a left and right anymore anyway?) are agreeable to US force depending on the situation. I certainly am...and in this situation, I don't think US force was truly necessary.

Admittedly, AI whining about the Iraqi TV station seems a bit silly.

Quote:

Iraq led the world in torture over the last decade.

Based on...???

Elspode · 03-27-2003, 10:55 AM

The statistics in Torture Illustrated, perhaps?

elSicomoro · 03-27-2003, 10:59 AM

The swimsuit issue is nice, from what I hear.

But seriously, how can you define a leader in torture? We know Saddam is a mean s.o.b., but look at the other incidents in the past 10 years (Rwanda, Sierra Leone, the countries of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo). Whose to say what is the worst? They're all horrible.

Undertoad · 03-27-2003, 11:06 AM

It turns out that the coalition forces used a new non-lethal anti-transistor weapon on the TV station because it was located in a civilian area.

"In our name" the country spent millions upon millions of dollars to develop a weapon that could take out the opposition's power without killing the subjugated population.

Can you think of any other military that has done this? This is awesome history being made.

(OK I probably overspoke wrt who's "number one" but you can bet this band of thugs is in the top 5 anyway.)

Uryoces · 03-27-2003, 01:53 PM

Aren't they using EMP bombs for that? I sem to recall something in either Scientific American or Popular Science [only time you'll hear me use the two magazines in the same sentence], that they had EMP bombs. Basically an explosive charge drives a metal slug, or liquified metal through a large coil in an airburst, and it gives of an EMP. That wouldn't be kind to anything electronic in the area.

Or I suppose they could have just fried it with a maser.

jaguar · 03-27-2003, 02:34 PM

It's not anti-transistor, it's purely anti-electronics. There is very little that survives these days, it'll nuke any modern cars, mobile phones, tvs, vcrs, phone systems, computers....

THere is confusion in the ati-war movement, precisely for the exact reason UT mentioned - Saddam is a brutal dictator, so why not support the war? Because of the philosophy behind it, the real anger, particualry in arab countries is coming from the neo-con imperialist bullshit that is driving this.

Removing Saddam is at the end of the day, probably a good thing (we'll see). On the other hand randomly invading countries with the kind of crap on newamericancentuary.org and then wondering why everyone from hungry to malaysia is getting shitty with the US..... Too many people appear to be executing their own little policies in this administration against the interests of thier own nation.

That Guy · 03-27-2003, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
It's not anti-transistor, it's purely anti-electronics.

And just what do you surmise modern electronics are made of?

Uryoces · 03-27-2003, 06:36 PM

Microchips are most sensitive to EMP, because they are very tiny transistors packed tight on a silicon substrate.

Waaay back in 1975, Soviet pilot Victor Belenko defected to the US, by way of Japan, in his Mig-25. The Mig 25 was a hot-rod interceptor, basically two massive Turmanski turbojet engines with wings that could push it to Mach 3 for limited periods. The West was desperate to get ahold of one, and Belenko provided them with that chance. They discovered that it's computer system was composed of vacuum tubes, and the West laughed it off. Then they realised that vacuum tubes are fairly immune to EMP, and didn't laugh.

The Soviets stated it was to enable the radar to burn through any jamming directed at it, but it had the added benefit of being EMP hardened.

jaguar · 03-28-2003, 01:15 AM

Well last i checked modern electronics still contains this like say...resistors, or capacitors......I'd love to see a mobo or for that matter, a CPU without those, dipshit. The phrase anti-transistor suggests it'd leave other electronic components along, which it most certainly will not. Even most microchips or ICs contain a range of components other than transistors and many low power capacitors such as tantalums are particualry vunerable to this thind of overcharging.

Nearly all soviet military equipment was valve based for EMP reasons - i nuke lets off EMP......

wolf · 03-28-2003, 01:43 AM

I am also a former Amnesty International contributor. Way before the big-ass concert.

AI and I parted ways after they seemed to lose interest in petty dictatorships torturing their dissidents and turned their eyes towards capital punishment in the US.

I believe there are two kinds of justice.

Regular and extra-crispy.

That Guy · 03-28-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Well last i checked modern electronics still contains this like say...resistors, or capacitors......I'd love to see a mobo or for that matter, a CPU without those, dipshit. The phrase anti-transistor suggests it'd leave other electronic components along, which it most certainly will not. Even most microchips or ICs contain a range of components other than transistors and many low power capacitors such as tantalums are particualry vunerable to this thind of overcharging.

Nearly all soviet military equipment was valve based for EMP reasons - i nuke lets off EMP......

He can't form a coherent sentence, and I'm the dipshit?

So you're saying that an EMP will disable resistors and capacitors? What electronics lab have you been studying in? What makes you think that CPU transistors are made of different materials than the capacitors contained therein?

Have you even seen a wafer die?

wolf · 03-28-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blowmeetheclown
Have you even seen a wafer die?

The screams are heartwrenching.

tw · 03-28-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
The screams are heartwrenching.

And those screams aren't from the wafer. Bean counters are tramatized everytime a wafer dies.

jaguar · 03-28-2003, 05:47 PM

If you look at a CPU there are a number of resistors on the packaging, i was referring to those, not any on the die itself.

Your average EMP from a nuclear explosion is rated around 50kV per nanosecond, that's going to fuse the hell out of most resistors. Obviously not all - things like MOVs are designed to withstand a hefty hit based on thier specs but many would, argueing either absolute is foolish. Capacitors once again will vary, i know from my own stuffing around years ago shoving a decent charge though even some hefty ones i was using when playing with gauss and rail guns would fry them. Electrolytics and tantalums would be far more vunerable than say inverter or pulse grade stuff.

Without a series of hard figures on both components and EMP specs this really is a waste of time.

03-27-2003, 10:33 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Amnesty Intl protests Iraqi TV station bombing some info At one time, I gave a good chunk of money to Amnesty International. I couldn't think of a better place to give money to; they were protesting torture and terrible treatment of prisoners worldwide and appeared to really be making a difference. What an important goal. The left used to be against that sort of thing. Times have changed. Now they are against the use of US force, no matter what that force is meant to do. Yesterday AI issued a news release saying that the US shouldn't have taken out the TV station in Baghdad, because that's civilian. Taking out the propaganda machine of a brutal dictatorship that may have been using the broadcasts to send information to its troops... is a bad thing to these jagoffs. Iraq led the world in torture over the last decade. Amnesty International seeks to maintain that situation. I guess it's good for donations.

03-27-2003, 10:55 AM	#3
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	The statistics in Torture Illustrated, perhaps? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

03-27-2003, 01:53 PM	#6
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	Aren't they using EMP bombs for that? I sem to recall something in either Scientific American or Popular Science [only time you'll hear me use the two magazines in the same sentence], that they had EMP bombs. Basically an explosive charge drives a metal slug, or liquified metal through a large coil in an airburst, and it gives of an EMP. That wouldn't be kind to anything electronic in the area. Or I suppose they could have just fried it with a maser. __________________ The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out.

03-27-2003, 02:34 PM	#7
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	It's not anti-transistor, it's purely anti-electronics. There is very little that survives these days, it'll nuke any modern cars, mobile phones, tvs, vcrs, phone systems, computers.... THere is confusion in the ati-war movement, precisely for the exact reason UT mentioned - Saddam is a brutal dictator, so why not support the war? Because of the philosophy behind it, the real anger, particualry in arab countries is coming from the neo-con imperialist bullshit that is driving this. Removing Saddam is at the end of the day, probably a good thing (we'll see). On the other hand randomly invading countries with the kind of crap on newamericancentuary.org and then wondering why everyone from hungry to malaysia is getting shitty with the US..... Too many people appear to be executing their own little policies in this administration against the interests of thier own nation. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 03-27-2003 at 02:36 PM.

03-27-2003, 06:36 PM	#9
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	Microchips are most sensitive to EMP, because they are very tiny transistors packed tight on a silicon substrate. Waaay back in 1975, Soviet pilot Victor Belenko defected to the US, by way of Japan, in his Mig-25. The Mig 25 was a hot-rod interceptor, basically two massive Turmanski turbojet engines with wings that could push it to Mach 3 for limited periods. The West was desperate to get ahold of one, and Belenko provided them with that chance. They discovered that it's computer system was composed of vacuum tubes, and the West laughed it off. Then they realised that vacuum tubes are fairly immune to EMP, and didn't laugh. The Soviets stated it was to enable the radar to burn through any jamming directed at it, but it had the added benefit of being EMP hardened. __________________ The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out.

03-27-2003, 10:59 AM	#4
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The swimsuit issue is nice, from what I hear. But seriously, how can you define a leader in torture? We know Saddam is a mean s.o.b., but look at the other incidents in the past 10 years (Rwanda, Sierra Leone, the countries of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo). Whose to say what is the worst? They're all horrible.

03-27-2003, 11:06 AM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It turns out that the coalition forces used a new non-lethal anti-transistor weapon on the TV station because it was located in a civilian area. "In our name" the country spent millions upon millions of dollars to develop a weapon that could take out the opposition's power without killing the subjugated population. Can you think of any other military that has done this? This is awesome history being made. (OK I probably overspoke wrt who's "number one" but you can bet this band of thugs is in the top 5 anyway.)

03-28-2003, 01:15 AM	#10
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Well last i checked modern electronics still contains this like say...resistors, or capacitors......I'd love to see a mobo or for that matter, a CPU without those, dipshit. The phrase anti-transistor suggests it'd leave other electronic components along, which it most certainly will not. Even most microchips or ICs contain a range of components other than transistors and many low power capacitors such as tantalums are particualry vunerable to this thind of overcharging. Nearly all soviet military equipment was valve based for EMP reasons - i nuke lets off EMP...... __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-28-2003, 01:43 AM	#11
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I am also a former Amnesty International contributor. Way before the big-ass concert. AI and I parted ways after they seemed to lose interest in petty dictatorships torturing their dissidents and turned their eyes towards capital punishment in the US. I believe there are two kinds of justice. Regular and extra-crispy. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-28-2003, 05:47 PM	#15
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	If you look at a CPU there are a number of resistors on the packaging, i was referring to those, not any on the die itself. Your average EMP from a nuclear explosion is rated around 50kV per nanosecond, that's going to fuse the hell out of most resistors. Obviously not all - things like MOVs are designed to withstand a hefty hit based on thier specs but many would, argueing either absolute is foolish. Capacitors once again will vary, i know from my own stuffing around years ago shoving a decent charge though even some hefty ones i was using when playing with gauss and rail guns would fry them. Electrolytics and tantalums would be far more vunerable than say inverter or pulse grade stuff. Without a series of hard figures on both components and EMP specs this really is a waste of time. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 03-28-2003 at 05:52 PM.

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