I know this isn't Oprah but...

[Catwoman]

Today I feel blue. In fact, it's a dark deep navy. With black edges. I think I have a broken heart. Again. Can I talk about it?

I'm going to anyway.

This is the background: I live in a house with four people. We are all twenty-something. There are two guys and two girls. For the moment we will disregard the other guy as he only moved in recently and isn't really part of this. So, two girls and a guy. For as long as I have known the other girl, she has been in 'love' with the guy, but he's never reciprocated. Then, about six months ago, things happened between them and they embarked on a sexual relationship, i.e. friends-who-fuck not boyfriend-and-girlfriend. Girl then went travelling for 3 months, and returned home yesterday.

Rewind to about 12 months ago. I started developing feelings for the guy. Don't know how or why. Thought it best to bury them. Didn't want to jeopardise the friendship, and I knew how the girl (by now a good friend) felt. Imagine the pain when they got it together. But, being fairly resilient, I managed to deal with it, mostly by ignoring it (hard when you live in the same house).

However, while said girl was away, for the last three months myself and this guy had a bit of a fling. And it wasn't just sexual. We found our friendship growing stronger and stronger, and spent so much time talking, I have never met anyone I connect with, who is so in tune with me, who is so intelligent he makes me question myself every day, as he says I do to him. Cliche or not, I have never felt so alive and happy. I think I've fallen in love with him.

But now she's back. It's awkward. She has always been competitive with me, and I'm sure she senses something, because it's worse than ever. Her flirtation is relentless. And he has no intention of discontinuing their 'relationship'. He says he finds it hard, knowing (to some extent) how we both feel, although I think he's got it made. Two beautiful girls, mad about him, in the same house? Except I am the underdog. No one knows about our 'affair', and he is going to carry on with her like nothing happened. Under the same roof. I can't describe how painful this is. At best, the social environment is incredibly uncomfortable and forced. At worst, my heart aches, my stomach contracts and leaving the room is all I can do not to cry and cry.

To move out, however, would be to give up. And there is still a part of me that is clinging onto the possibility that we still have a chance. It is incredibly arrogant of me, but I don't think she has the qualities he deserves, nowhere near. She has very cleverly manipulated him and he cannot see it. She becomes something she is not around him. Says she likes things because he does, aligns herself with him so he believes they are similar. She is completely different. She is weak and he is strong. She is naive, conniving and doesn't love him for who he is, but for someone she thinks she can mould him into, given the opportunity. I can't stand to watch.

I don't want to change him, I love him the way he is. I love the way we make each other feel, I would spend time with him over anyone else I know and value him more than anyone I have ever met, and I can't bear not being with him. Does selfless, accepting, pure, passionate love not get a chance just because it doesn't fight or play games?

Sorry to go on. Just had to get it off my chest. If anyone has anything to say that doesn't involve the words 'together', 'yourself' and 'pull' I would be so grateful.

[Griff]

I want to be very careful about how I say this... What behavior of his makes you think your feelings are reciprocated? I see a guy taking advantage of two young women. insert free milk and cow speech here I'm sorry for your pain.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Griff
I want to be very careful about how I say this... What behavior of his makes you think your feelings are reciprocated? I see a guy taking advantage of two young women. insert free milk and cow speech here I'm sorry for your pain.

I'd qualify that as seeing a guy possibly taking advantage of a situation.

Not enough information. We'll never hear from the guy or the other girl.

[lumberjim]

this is going to sound insane, but I think you should print your post and hand it to him.

it will take very large balls, but the sooner you do it, the sooner you will resolve this issue. to do nothing would be too damaging.

[Catwoman]

Given that last time I looked my balls were the size of two disadvantaged peanuts, and the fact that Griff made a hell of a lot of sense (isn't it funny how blind you can be when in the midst of an emotional situation) I think I'll leave off telling him for now.

True, TS, you've only got my irrational, twisted and emotionally charged account of events. But given that I cannot impact the actual situation (ie cannot alter other peoples feelings) the only thing I can change is myself and that is what I guess I am looking for help with. I wouldn't presume to be able to solve the situation, but I can tailor my psychological response to it to minimise the trauma. Just got a bit stuck and found myself drowning.

Don't hold back, if you think I'm being a pathetic spineless weak-willed typically erratic emotion-led woman please say so. It might help.


edited for... doesn't matter

[Beestie]

I like LJ's suggestion. But I'd buy some Haagen Daz futures and scrape together a new rent deposit just to hedge your bet.

This guy has basically put an offer on the table to you both: I'll have sex and give you a warm and fuzzy but no relationship. Since both of you accepted the deal (at different points in time), it will be hard to go back now and change the terms (e.g., drop the other girl and give me a relationship). Since your friend is still ok with the original deal, the guy has no incentive to take your deal unless he really does have feelings for you. In a way, its a good thing because the only way he will accept an "ultimatum" is if he really cares for you. Sometimes, a woman is not sure, when a guy stays with her, if its the sex or the relationship that is keeping him there. You will be spared that uncertainty (since he already has a "free sex" offer on the table) so in a way, its a very clean cut situation.

But, you must give it a try - the only thing you have to lose is not knowing. The hurt of love lost will fade. The agony of not "going for it" and wondering if it would have worked out had you gone for it will never fade.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Catwoman
Don't hold back, if you think I'm being a pathetic spineless weak-willed typically erratic emotion-led woman please say so. It might help.

I was just saying that any information we gave you concerning the other two people would be very suspect due to the lack of information to work with.

Now, that being said, it's my opinion that you get your feelings made clear as soon as is expedient (like it was said before, Haagen Daaz and rent money just in case).

[Catwoman]

Originally posted by Beestie
This guy has basically put an offer on the table to you both: I'll have sex and give you a warm and fuzzy but no relationship. Since both of you accepted the deal (at different points in time), it will be hard to go back now and change the terms (e.g., drop the other girl and give me a relationship). Since your friend is still ok with the original deal, the guy has no incentive to take your deal unless he really does have feelings for you. In a way, its a good thing because the only way he will accept an "ultimatum" is if he really cares for you. Sometimes, a woman is not sure, when a guy stays with her, if its the sex or the relationship that is keeping him there. You will be spared that uncertainty (since he already has a "free sex" offer on the table) so in a way, its a very clean cut situation.

But, you must give it a try - the only thing you have to lose is not knowing. The hurt of love lost will fade. The agony of not "going for it" and wondering if it would have worked out had you gone for it will never fade.

The bit where I read and understand your post but still give a categorically unrelated emotional response:

But he does kind of know how I feel! I've told him I like him, I've slept with him, I've told him I find it hard now she's back. Surely that adds up - he's not stupid. I think I'm waiting for him to say 'I've decided I don't want her, I want you, let me whisk you away' which of course he wont while we're both still sat on the table, legs open and hungry (can't be bothered to correct implausible metaphor). So have decided to leave the table. Not going to have any relationship above friends while he's sleeping with her. If he's bothered, it'll show right? He'll say something? If not, I do have enough self respect to forget about it. (Not, you would think, something that was immediately apparent in previous post).

Haagen Dazs and rent money? Is syphillis involved?

[Beestie]

Originally posted by Catwoman

Haagen Dazs and rent money? Is syphillis involved?

No. Haagen Daz is a premium ice cream here in the States that women buy mass quantities of to get over the hurt and the rent money is to find a new place to live. Sexually transmitted disease didn't enter my mind.

We've all been there at one point or another - and frankly, it sucks.

**wishing you strength**

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by Catwoman


But he does kind of know how I feel!

How do you know what he knows? You CANNOT base any action (or inaction) on what you THINK he knows. That is a recipe for disaster.

I've told him I like him, I've slept with him, I've told him I find it hard now she's back. Surely that adds up - he's not stupid. I think I'm waiting for him to say 'I've decided I don't want her, I want you, let me whisk you away' which of course he wont while we're both still sat on the table, legs open and hungry (can't be bothered to correct implausible metaphor).

Insert Radar-like attitude here: Why should he want to change what he has? He's got sex from her, he's got your "friendship" and care. Why would any guy want to change that?

So have decided to leave the table. Not going to have any relationship above friends while he's sleeping with her. If he's bothered, it'll show right? He'll say something? If not, I do have enough self respect to forget about it. (Not, you would think, something that was immediately apparent in previous post).

Even if you cut him off sexually, he's still getting the pussy from her. He doesn't need yours.

Obviously, i'ts more to the female living with you than "friends that fuck" at this point, or it wouldn't be an issue for you to tell her "While you were gone, we started a relationship." If they were just friends, she shouldn't have a problem with that.

You need to decide in your heart and your head what you are willing to live with. Once that's decided, put it out on the table. "I have feelings for you, and I need to know if you want a relationship or not. If so, great, sex with miss thang is over, and if she can't accept that, she moves out. If not, then I can't handle your relationship with her, and I'm moving out. (If that is what you've decided to do.)

Bottomline here Cat, is basically what Beestie has said. If you say something, the worst possible outcome is he says no, you move, nurse the heartache, and get on with your life. If you don't say something, you will never know "what could have been" and it will haunt you the rest of your days.

Been there, done that. Don't make that mistake.

"Some mistakes were built to last" ~ George Michael

[OnyxCougar]

And BTW (speaking about syphilis)....if she's sleeping with god knows how many people (fuck friends or relationships, whatever), and he's slept with her before you did and he's sleeping with her again now...you've effectively slept with all the people she has..... think about that....

[SteveDallas]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar


How do you know what he knows? You CANNOT base any action (or inaction) on what you THINK he knows. That is a recipe for disaster.

Men are notoriously clueless about such things. (See the "oh wait that woman was flirting with me but I didn't realize it till three months later" discussion from.. oh, some time ago, & I'm too lazy to look it up.)

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
And BTW (speaking about syphilis)....if she's sleeping with god knows how many people (fuck friends or relationships, whatever), and he's slept with her before you did and he's sleeping with her again now...you've effectively slept with all the people she has..... think about that....

more importantly....you've slept with HER! yay, lesbians!

[Catwoman]

Onyx, I know you're right. She does want more than friends with him. He will always have access to her pussy, and 'a c**t's a c**t no matter what gut it's hung from' to quote someone I know.

So do I withdraw friendship as well? Surely that would be stupid - am I not mature and rational enough to maintain an adult friendship (once I know where I stand) without obscuring it with feelings? Sex things cum and go but.... well I think this is one friend I'd like to keep, romantic feelings aside. Are you saying this gives him the wrong impression? If I am absolutely clear with him about my feelings it can only impact our friendship and I don't want that to happen 1) because I genuinely value his friendship and 2) because just cos it may not be right now, I don't want to jeopardise a future relationship because I said the wrong thing at the wrong time. Does that make sense?

And the syphillis thing... she's not sleeping with anyone else, hasn't for ages (she's hoping for a relationship too). What a mess.

Beestie thanks for the strength I need it and it was a joke about the Haagen Dazs thing... we have it here too, and 'rent money' is a term for prostitute money, hence the sordid ice cream, sex and STD connection... Never mind, remind me not to attempt to make jokes when in the proverbial dumps.

[wolf]

Don't forget that your are interpreting EVERYBODY'S behavior through the haze of your own feelings for the male ... people may or not be doing the things you think they are.

It's already been said better by others, but the "pattern" of people in the residence being fuckbuddies has already been established. If you want something different, do something different, possibly even *gasp* saying out loud what you think, feel, and mean.

But yeah, a tub of overly rich chocolate ice cream, preferrably with chocolate bits, and a lead on a new place to live makes a decent fall back position.