News from the Front

So today I drove down from the mountains into the city of Colorado Springs. A friend and I had agreed to do some door to door canvassing for the local Democratic Party. Our job was to go to people in certain key precincts and urge them to get out and vote this November. My friend and I were handed a clipboard with a series of apartment adresses for a low rent part of town attached to it. When we got there we discovered that most of the apartments were occupied by soldiers (mostly E3's - E5's) and their families stationed at near by Fort Carson, home of the 3rd Armored Cav. Division, an outfit which has seen a lot of action in Iraq. All the soldiers we talked to had done at least one tour in Iraq, many had done two or even three. Soldier after soldier told us stories about lack of supplies while fighting in Iraq and cuts in combat pay and military families forced to go on food stamps because pay is so low and the commissary no longer offers the good deals it once did. There is not enough housing on base, so these members of our regular army and their families are forced to live in the run down apartments like the ones we visited today. Many of the soldiers we talked to were black or hispanic. They were stoic as they spoke of their hardships and seemed surprised that a couple of civilians would feel concerned. When they saw that we were sympathetic, they would open up and tell stories about lack of clean drinking water and raiding old NATO bases for fresh food supplies. It wasn't just one man who spoke of these things, it wasn't just two or three, but soldier after, soldier in run down apartment after run down apartment. Small children would cling to their Mom or Dad's legs as they watched we two strangers listening to their parents' words.

We are letting down the courageous men and women who serve this country. We are letting them down on the battlefield and we are letting them down here at home. Bush is SOOOO out of touch with reality when he talks about how well our military are treated. He should know better. He was the one who reduced their combat pay. Just one more Bush atrocity

[lookout123]

just so our facts our straight, i bring you factcheck.org. they are similar to spinsanity.com.

John Edwards:

Edwards: They sent 40,000 American troops into Iraq without the body armor they needed. They sent them without the armored vehicles they needed. While they were on the ground fighting, they lobbied the Congress to cut their combat pay. This is the height of hypocrisy.

and the reality

Cutting Combat Pay?

Edwards twice accused the administration of having "lobbied the Congress" to cut the combat pay of troops in Iraq, when in fact the White House never supported such a plan.

Rather, the Defense Department proposed allowing a temporary pay increase for all troops worldwide (even those not in Iraq or Afghanistan) to expire, and promised to maintain current pay levels for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with separate pay raises if necessary.

Army Times reported in its issue for the week ending Aug. 18, 2003 that a Pentagon budget assessment sent to Congress in July called for letting a temporary combat pay raise enacted earlier that year for troops worldwide expire at the end of the fiscal year, Sept. 30. The result would have been a cut of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances."

But according to an Aug. 15 American Forces Press Service report, David S.C. Chu, defense undersecretary for personnel and readiness, said the department could raise hardship duty pay or incentive pay. The bottom line: "We are not going to reduce their compensation," Chu said. The Pentagon also said in an Aug. 14 news release : "This is an issue of targeting those most deserving, and certainly people serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are in these categories."

so it would appear that the white house hasn't cut any combat pay. so are the troops paid enough? absolutely not. but the white house didn't cut any combat pay packages.


edit: one other note. where do the white junior enlisted live? they are paid the exact same amount as the soldiers belonging to minority groups.

Bush proposed cuts on seperation and combat pay back in 2003 (because we'd won the war and it was over) which totaled together amounted to a $225.00/ month paycut. He then backpedaled because of military and public outrage and re-instated the amount until December of this year. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0815-09.htm
Troops are concerned that the paycut will now be put into effect a month after the election is over. Anybody want to make a bet about what happens to their pay should Bush be re-elected with 4 year's clear sailing ahead? When your base pay is only $1200 or $1400/month that $225.00 means alot. Bush was shamed temporarily from making this cut, but the December date for a pay decrease looms large in the minds of many soldiers.

I did not write that ALL the soldiers were black or hispanic, just that many of them were. We talked to any number of white soldiers as well in the same series of apartment complexes.

[lookout123]

that wouldn't be a pay decrease because the additional was only a temporary increase to begin with. and as is noted - the DoD proposal was to not renew or extend the extra pay to all troops only maintain it for troops in Afghanistan and Iraq - the only troops in a combat zone.

i know i only got my hazardous duty pay while in designated hazardous duty regions because that has how it always worked until 9/11.

the troops have been told all along that it was only a temporary bump.

Originally Posted by lookout123

.

the troops have been told all along that it was only a temporary bump.

Right, because we were in a war that now has been won. How come our troops have to keep doing tours over there then? How come American casualities continue to climb as we stand victorious on the battlefield? How come Republicans keep saying we shouldn't switch leadership in the middle of a conflict if there is no more fighting that should entitle our troops to combat pay? It was a temporary bump. Good, let's all go home.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Semantics, you're both right,..... or wrong.
Anyway, it's been a financial bitch slap for reservists that were expecting the military to provide extra income one weekend a month, to suddenly have to pay their bills on military pay.
Now I'm the first to say, they knew that was a possibility when they signed up, they made a choice now live with it. But I still sympathize with their plight.

[lookout123]

ok, i don't know how to make this any more clear. the people that are actually in combat zones continue to receive increased pay as they should.

for the rest of the people it was pure gravy, a post 9/11 feel good thing. there is absolutely no reason that someone sitting at Ft Carson, Andrews AFB, or Marine Air Station Yuma should be getting hazardous duty pay just because other american troops are being shot at.
they should get a larger base pay increase but that is a different subject.

reservists and guardsmen are having problems because often they are receiving a lot less money while activated than they would in their civilian lives. that is information that is known and considered when they sign up. other than full time students, i don't know anyone in the guard or reserve units that i have been a part of that is doing it strictly for the money. it is a soldier's right (possibly duty) to bitch and moan about damn near everything in the military, but when reenlistment time rolls around they stand up and do it again.
My own situation is like that. when i am activated my military pay is less than half of what i make in civilian life, and i bitch about it. but i've reenlisted 3 times now. BTW - i was supposed to report to Baghdad on Sept 15th but switched tours with someone i know so they wouldn't have to reschedule their wedding and honeymoon. so that's right folks, the way things are planned i will report for duty in Baghdad on March 15th, 2005. ain't that a bitch?
while i'm there i will bitch about the pay, the benefits, the conditions, and a lot of other things, but come January 11th 2006 i will reenlist for a 4th time.

The soldiers at Fort Carson don't recieve combat pay unless they are in a combat zone. The extension on combat pay for those in Iraq and other combat areas ends this December. Since every soldier I talked to expects to be sent on another tour over there, they were not pleased about the prospect of going back with their combat pay cut. I should have made THAT clear. And, yeah, soldiers don't go into it for the money, but I think congress should raise their pay enough so that some families aren't forced to live on food stamps, at the very least.

[xoxoxoBruce]

the way things are planned i will report for duty in Baghdad on March 15th, 2005. ain't that a bitch?

Not to worry, Kerry will have us out of there by then.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by marichiko

And, yeah, soldiers don't go into it for the money, but I think congress should raise their pay enough so that some families aren't forced to live on food stamps, at the very least.

i absolutely agree with you. but everyone needs to understand that this is not a new event. having some soldiers on food stamps has absolutely nothing to do with Bush in office. the pay is still low, but it is higher in proportion to what the civilian counterparts are making than it has been in a very long time. pay is designed for the needs of the service member. a common problem is that many junior enlisted get married and have kids thinking they get more money. (that and they are young, dumb, and full of cum - to be crude about it.) in reality, when they get married they qualify to move off base and receive their housing allowance which is based off going rates in that specific area and their food allowance which is designed to pay for service member meals only - 2/day in the dining hall in fact. the same people who do this are the ones who get new(er) cars, stereos, tv's, etc... than they can afford. it is a common phenomenon. an 18-20 servicemember suddenly is in the world where he gets a steady paycheck and gets in too deep trying to accumulate the things it took his parents years to get. it is unfortunate - but common. there are a lot of programs through the family support center to help them, but most are too embarrassed to go for help.

and Mari - the renewal or extension of Hazardous duty pay is always an ongoing issue. they always start the discussion several years in advance so that no one can say they didn't see it coming. after the shooting ended in desert storm there were immediate discussions to eliminate the hazardous duty pay. i was still receiving it when i got to KSA in '94. it is just a political card that is played in election years. you may be running into junior enlisted who aren't aware of that, but that is just the way it is.

Well, we can argue back and forth forever what impact the Bush administration has had on military pay. Our military has had low pay for a while now, but things have certainly gotten worse. As you always like to say, "it ain't my Dad's army no more." When I was growing up as the child of a serviceman, no family had to apply for government assistance to make ends meet. The commissary was a great bargain back then, and so was the PX. Dependents got free medical care which covered prescriptions, glasses and dental. Now they don't. Back then there was enough on base housing. We lived in a fairly decent duplex on post until my parents saved enough money for a down payment on a modest home in town. Things have changed a great deal, and not for the better.

[wolf]

You were growing up during those years that we now base inflation rates against, though, weren't you? The halcion days in which a single income could sustain a family of four?

The game has changed.

And lookout is right about the cars and stereos, etc.

Friend of mine's brother can't afford to feed himself, but he does have one motherfucking sweet $20K sportscar with $10K worth of installed audio accessories ...

Originally Posted by wolf

You were growing up during those years that we now base inflation rates against, though, weren't you? The halcion days in which a single income could sustain a family of four?

The game has changed.

And lookout is right about the cars and stereos, etc.

Friend of mine's brother can't afford to feed himself, but he does have one motherfucking sweet $20K sportscar with $10K worth of installed audio accessories ...

Yes, I did grow up in that halcyon era, and you're right things have changed. America is a lot meaner and leaner these days. Sure, some military guys blow all their money on stereos and cars. Some guys in civilian life do the same thing. I didn't notice very many sporty cars in the parking lots of those apartments, however; and the interior furnishings were adequate but I didn't see a lot of high tech stereo equipment in them. They were pretty much the modest dwellings you find among any group of working class people with a couple of small kids.

Highlights of today's neighborhood canvassing in Colorado Springs (by the way, we carry clipboards and take detailed notes). A senior NCO who got back from Iraq last Feb and saw action in which members of his unit were killed. He never wants to go back there because he feels that he was lied to about WMD. "If they are going to ask me to put my life on the line, at least they could be honest about their reasons for doing so," he said. "Its all about oil, if you ask me."

A hispanic man in a run down part of town. "I don't know why Bush keeps saying he gave us tax cuts. MY taxes have gone up!"

A volunteer at the local democratic headquarters. "I'm a retired military officer. My wife and I were Republicans up to the Bush election. I feel so betrayed by Bush's actions that I will never again return to the Republican party."

As I drive across the conservative, Republican stronghold that is Colorado Springs, more and more signs for Kerry and local Democratic candidates seem to be cropping up. In the neighborhoods I've been driving through, they far outnumber the ones for the Republicans. This is astonishing. Frankly, I think even the military are becoming disgusted with Bush. Although few of them will say this publicly, in private conversations they are quite open about voicing their anger with their commander in chief. IMO, if Bush wins this election, it will be due to some dirty trick with the voting machines.