Car Service Woes

Kitsune · 01-06-2005, 09:16 AM

People wonder why I drive thirty miles out of my way to another town to get my vehicle serviced. Here's why:

70,000 mile service + timing belt. All the work listed below is exactly the same.

Shop #1 quote: $56 for service + $593.72 for the timing belt. ($649.72)
Shop #2 quote: $351.75 for service + $562.37 for the timing belt. ($914.12)
Shop #3 quote: $462, total, for all work.

"Can I have this done on Saturday?"

Shop #1: No.
Shop #2: No.
Shop #3: Of course -- would you like me to schedule you for this coming Saturday?

"Will you give me a loaner car?"

Shop #1: No -- we only do that if we have to keep it overnight.
Shop #2: No.
Shop #3: Yep, and you can keep it overnight and pick your car up in the morning if its more convient for you. Oh, here's a voucher for breakfast across the street since you came in so early for us this morning and the coffee in the breakroom isn't so great.

Three shops, all attached to dealerships, all "certified" by the manufacturer. They should all have the same or very similar prices. Shop #3 also has the interesting policy of taking all of the old parts and placing them in a plastic bag that they dump onto the passenger seat floor so you get proof of work when you get the car back. I'm really frustrated that I didn't find shop #3 until three years of owning my car, so to all of you out there that know a friendly shop that you trust: you are extremely fortunate. Moving away from my old, friendly shop was total heartbreak.

"And don't drive like my brother!"

russotto · 01-06-2005, 09:56 AM

Aside from the price issue (I haven't compared other dealer shops), the dealer shop I go to for the big stuff (60k mile) is like your shop #3 (Faulkner Mazda, for those in the Philadelphia area). For the smaller stuff I don't go to the dealer.

Another dealership (rhymes with Con Dozin') is a bit closer, but they pulled a "wall job" on me once and that was enough.

(A "wall job" is where they charge you, then just let your car sit next to the wall instead of actually doing the service).

Roosta · 01-06-2005, 05:52 PM

What was the boo-boo they made that pointed to a wall job?

Kitsune · 01-07-2005, 08:52 AM

I've heard its a good idea to mark some car parts (oil filter, belts, etc) with a sharpie before taking your vehicle in. If the mark is still there when you get it back, return and cracks some skulls.

russotto · 01-07-2005, 08:56 AM

At 60,000 miles, they suggested replacing clutch slave cylinder and valve cover gasket. which is reasonable on a Miata. Both were original. By 80,000 miles, clutch slave cylinder and valve cover gasket had both failed. It's possible they managed to do a really lousy job installing them, or installed substandard parts, but I think the most likely explanation is "wall job".

xoxoxoBruce · 01-07-2005, 08:57 PM

All 3 of those explanations should earn you reparations......or revenge.

tw · 01-08-2005, 02:38 PM

I have preformed most every oil change for well over 30 years. It also provides some important information. I know where those mechanics hands have been and I see problems before problems can happen.

For example, a Firestone dealer in Montgomeryville. I told him these are the original tires (at 107,000 and 9 years). He insisted that I need a wheel alignment. You tell me. Never had a wheel alignment in 9 years. Never had tires wear unevenly. I know there was nothing to go out of alignment (which means I don't own a GM product).

With new tires is a different position on the wheel. Dealer tells me this will happen with new tires. (IOW he called me a religious fool.) Fresh wrench marks on a bolt that can change the alignment. The realignment was exactly one full turn on that adjuster. I see things underneath the car every few months because I change my oil. If something has changed, well, I saw what it looked like previously.

PA has a screwy inspection that requires a mechanic to remove all wheels. I must go back, break those wheel lugs, and retorque them to proper settings. It has helped to identify honest shops. Honest mechanics don't torque those 65 foot pound bolts to something in excess of 100 foot pounds. Make a flat tire almost impossible to change. Just another little fact that helps identify honest mechanics. The devil - such as the Firestone dealer at Montgomery Mall - is exposed by such details.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-08-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

I must go back, break those wheel lugs, and retorque them to proper settings.

The problem with that is that if they ran them in with an impact gun, they've stretched the lugs and possibly warped the wheel or the disc rotor/ drum.
I find it better to respectfully request they hand torque the lug nuts then stand over them menacingly while they do it. Cleaning you're nails with a large knife at the same time can't hurt.

Spot on TW. While under the car take a minute to look around, it's amazing the little things you'll notice after you've done it a few times.

01-07-2005, 08:57 PM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	All 3 of those explanations should earn you reparations......or revenge. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-06-2005, 09:16 AM	#1
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Car Service Woes People wonder why I drive thirty miles out of my way to another town to get my vehicle serviced. Here's why: 70,000 mile service + timing belt. All the work listed below is exactly the same. Shop #1 quote: $56 for service + $593.72 for the timing belt. ($649.72) Shop #2 quote: $351.75 for service + $562.37 for the timing belt. ($914.12) Shop #3 quote: $462, total, for all work. "Can I have this done on Saturday?" Shop #1: No. Shop #2: No. Shop #3: Of course -- would you like me to schedule you for this coming Saturday? "Will you give me a loaner car?" Shop #1: No -- we only do that if we have to keep it overnight. Shop #2: No. Shop #3: Yep, and you can keep it overnight and pick your car up in the morning if its more convient for you. Oh, here's a voucher for breakfast across the street since you came in so early for us this morning and the coffee in the breakroom isn't so great. Three shops, all attached to dealerships, all "certified" by the manufacturer. They should all have the same or very similar prices. Shop #3 also has the interesting policy of taking all of the old parts and placing them in a plastic bag that they dump onto the passenger seat floor so you get proof of work when you get the car back. I'm really frustrated that I didn't find shop #3 until three years of owning my car, so to all of you out there that know a friendly shop that you trust: you are extremely fortunate. Moving away from my old, friendly shop was total heartbreak. "And don't drive like my brother!" Last edited by Kitsune; 01-06-2005 at 09:27 AM.

01-06-2005, 09:56 AM	#2
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Aside from the price issue (I haven't compared other dealer shops), the dealer shop I go to for the big stuff (60k mile) is like your shop #3 (Faulkner Mazda, for those in the Philadelphia area). For the smaller stuff I don't go to the dealer. Another dealership (rhymes with Con Dozin') is a bit closer, but they pulled a "wall job" on me once and that was enough. (A "wall job" is where they charge you, then just let your car sit next to the wall instead of actually doing the service).

01-06-2005, 05:52 PM	#3
Roosta Nutter. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: England Posts: 221	What was the boo-boo they made that pointed to a wall job? __________________ Back from the brink...

01-07-2005, 08:52 AM	#4
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I've heard its a good idea to mark some car parts (oil filter, belts, etc) with a sharpie before taking your vehicle in. If the mark is still there when you get it back, return and cracks some skulls.

01-07-2005, 08:56 AM	#5
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	At 60,000 miles, they suggested replacing clutch slave cylinder and valve cover gasket. which is reasonable on a Miata. Both were original. By 80,000 miles, clutch slave cylinder and valve cover gasket had both failed. It's possible they managed to do a really lousy job installing them, or installed substandard parts, but I think the most likely explanation is "wall job".

01-08-2005, 02:38 PM	#7
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	I have preformed most every oil change for well over 30 years. It also provides some important information. I know where those mechanics hands have been and I see problems before problems can happen. For example, a Firestone dealer in Montgomeryville. I told him these are the original tires (at 107,000 and 9 years). He insisted that I need a wheel alignment. You tell me. Never had a wheel alignment in 9 years. Never had tires wear unevenly. I know there was nothing to go out of alignment (which means I don't own a GM product). With new tires is a different position on the wheel. Dealer tells me this will happen with new tires. (IOW he called me a religious fool.) Fresh wrench marks on a bolt that can change the alignment. The realignment was exactly one full turn on that adjuster. I see things underneath the car every few months because I change my oil. If something has changed, well, I saw what it looked like previously. PA has a screwy inspection that requires a mechanic to remove all wheels. I must go back, break those wheel lugs, and retorque them to proper settings. It has helped to identify honest shops. Honest mechanics don't torque those 65 foot pound bolts to something in excess of 100 foot pounds. Make a flat tire almost impossible to change. Just another little fact that helps identify honest mechanics. The devil - such as the Firestone dealer at Montgomery Mall - is exposed by such details.

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