vaccines

lumberjim · 11-22-2003, 08:57 AM

what do you know about vaccines? are you for or agin them? are they just a money maker for the pharm. co's that have to keep coming up with more vaccines each year in order to maintain profits? or are they actually useful? those of you with young ones should do your homework before allowing the doctors to do what they do just because they're doctors.....remember that if you combine pharmaceutical errors and malpractice, the health industry is the leading cause of death in this country.

staceyv · 11-23-2003, 11:05 AM

only a small handful of them are really necessary...the rest may benefit the elderly or the weak, but are marketed to everybody..Ofcourse it's a MONEY thing...I've never gotten a flu shot..I haven't had the flu in 6 years. Half the people I know who got the flu shot got sick because of the shot........This is a little off topic, but I think it relates: I was a veterinary technician for a couple of years. The vets encouraged pet owners to come in every single year, because dogs/cats absolutely HAD to have their distemper shot or they would be at a SERIOUS risk...yeah right. the vaccine companies were sending literature to the vet, saying that the vaccines were being retested and that they actually only had to be given only every 3 years, and if given more often, they would make the pet be at a risk for tumors...well, the vets still are telling people to come on in every year and get those shots, because it brings them profit, and if the animal gets a tumor, well, even better...more profit. If there weren't any sick people then doctors wouldn't make any money...one more thing, the more you go, doesn't it seem the more unhealthier you are?

lumberjim · 11-25-2003, 10:03 AM

yeah, more unhealthier.

and if the vets act that way, i think that human medicine, being more organized and "corporatized" would practice this philosophy a thousand fold.

we were refused treatment by our first pediatrician because we declined the MMR vaccine ( the one that "allegedly" causes a high incidence of autism)

med practices have to maintain a certain ratio of vaccinated/unvaccinated patients to recieve the assistance they get from the gov't. we had to listen to a 25 year old pediatrician tell us how many kids she's seen die from the mumps......give me a mutha effin break.....please. she's never seen a case of the mumps, much less a death.....

Kitsune · 11-25-2003, 10:26 AM

That polio vaccine was way overrated.

elSicomoro · 11-25-2003, 12:38 PM

The whole thing against vaccines sounds like a big conspiracy to me. (Slang?) I haven't looked at any new studies in a while, but from what I've seen, the medical evidence thus far shows that they are far more helpful than harmful. And with the way the world is today, you never know who has a vial of what.

Imagine if we all had smallpox vaccinations...we probably wouldn't be as pressed about someone getting a hold of it.

Griff · 11-25-2003, 12:44 PM

It kind of rubbed me the wrong way when we had to give the kids the chicken pox vaccine. They don't know with any certainty that a lifelong immunity will develop from it so there is a possibility that they'll contract the disease as adults when its dangerous rather than now when its annoying.

ladysycamore · 11-25-2003, 02:19 PM

Vaccines...well, I hear both sides of the issue (for and against), and half of the time I don't know what to think. I haven't had a vaccine shot of anything in a while. I'm a bit nervous now since being on peritoneal dialysis about how a flu shot would affect me.

jinx · 11-29-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
It kind of rubbed me the wrong way when we had to give the kids the chicken pox vaccine. They don't know with any certainty that a lifelong immunity will develop from it so there is a possibility that they'll contract the disease as adults when its dangerous rather than now when its annoying.

The chicken pox vaccine was the one that made us start questioning all vaccines, mostly just becuase it seemed unnecessary. We wondered if any others were unnecessary. A quick browse thru the cdc'c statistical rolodex of morbidity and mortality showed us that our healthy middle class white kids weren't at much of a risk for catching, much less experiencing serious complications from most childhood illnesses. However, a look thru the vaers database showed us that vaccines do have very real side effects, from minor (and usually masked by the prescribed post vaccine tylenol dose) to death, and everything in between.
Obvious medical/pharaceutical conspiracies aside, we decided to keep our kids healthy (with diet and lifestyle), instead of just not sick (with injected chemicals, known toxins and carcinogens, and unknown viruses inherent in the animal material used in vaccine manufacture (no sv-40 for us, thanks)).

staceyv · 12-03-2003, 11:14 AM

why does god kill a kitten when you use margarine?

vsp · 12-03-2003, 12:00 PM

Vaccines are like catastrophic-injury health insurance; the odds that you're going to be on the bullseye at any given time are extremely small, but should you hit the unlucky lottery, you're much better off with the vaccine than without.

The vaccination <-> risk of autism connection (or lack thereof, depending on whose side you hear) is something I'd really like to know more about before I start pounding out any kids.

Undertoad · 03-03-2005, 11:01 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4311613.stm

"Scientists say they have strong evidence that the MMR vaccination is not linked to a rise in autism."

Beestie · 03-03-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4311613.stm

"Scientists say they have strong evidence that the MMR vaccination is not linked to a rise in autism."

Quote:

Concern over a link between the two were raised after a study by Dr Andrew Wakefield published in the Lancet in 1998 which claimed MMR might trigger autism.

Wow, a peer-reviewed article in the highly respected Lancet might be incorrect?

lookout123 · 03-03-2005, 11:22 AM

beestie - do i have to draw you a graph, or can i just tell you to shut up?

cjjulie · 03-03-2005, 12:50 PM

I agree with Jinx, the chicken pox vaccine was the only one that got us. When it was first presented it was a voluntary thing which our Dr. said was not 100% and it was not certain if a booster would be needed in 10 years. When we went back with our son it was mandatory for entrance into the school system. Neither of our children has had chicken pox (bummer, I suppose). I would've rather they had the actual virus and not the vaccine as their antibodies would be more built up.

I did have chicken pox when I was a kid and about 10 years ago I had shingles (same virus which lies dormant in a nerve until something triggers it).

Brett's Honey · 03-03-2005, 06:41 PM

I read somewhere a theory that the reason so many kids today get a lot of ear infections (which kids in my generation rarely had), allergies, and other little "bugs" is because they get vaccinated for everything, they don't get measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc., so their immune system never fights those illnesses and gets built up. Anyone heard anything similar to that...?
Luckily, when I took my daughter for her 15 month shots, I told them that she was acting kind of sick and I had a doctor appointment scheduled for her. They decided to wait another month to give her the shots, since they don't give them to a child if they're very sick. As it turned out, she was diagnosed with neuroblastoma, a childhood cancer, and her immune system was already bottomed out. Had she gotten the shots, she could have developed one or more of the diseases that she was being vaccinated against, and it could have even been fatal. She didn't survive the cancer, but I did get to have her until she was 2 1/2 years old, which probably wouldn't have happened if she'd gotten her 15 month shots. At the very least, there would have been serious complications.
Everyone needs to know how important it is that their kids do not get vaccines when they are sick!
There are some folks who home school their children mainly because they refuse to get them the vaccines that public school requires.

11-22-2003, 08:57 AM	#1
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	vaccines what do you know about vaccines? are you for or agin them? are they just a money maker for the pharm. co's that have to keep coming up with more vaccines each year in order to maintain profits? or are they actually useful? those of you with young ones should do your homework before allowing the doctors to do what they do just because they're doctors.....remember that if you combine pharmaceutical errors and malpractice, the health industry is the leading cause of death in this country. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

11-25-2003, 10:03 AM	#3
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	yeah, more unhealthier. and if the vets act that way, i think that human medicine, being more organized and "corporatized" would practice this philosophy a thousand fold. we were refused treatment by our first pediatrician because we declined the MMR vaccine ( the one that "allegedly" causes a high incidence of autism) med practices have to maintain a certain ratio of vaccinated/unvaccinated patients to recieve the assistance they get from the gov't. we had to listen to a 25 year old pediatrician tell us how many kids she's seen die from the mumps......give me a mutha effin break.....please. she's never seen a case of the mumps, much less a death..... __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

11-25-2003, 12:44 PM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	It kind of rubbed me the wrong way when we had to give the kids the chicken pox vaccine. They don't know with any certainty that a lifelong immunity will develop from it so there is a possibility that they'll contract the disease as adults when its dangerous rather than now when its annoying. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

11-25-2003, 02:19 PM	#7
ladysycamore "I may not always be perfect, but I'm always me." Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In Sycamore's boxers Posts: 1,341	Vaccines...well, I hear both sides of the issue (for and against), and half of the time I don't know what to think. I haven't had a vaccine shot of anything in a while. I'm a bit nervous now since being on peritoneal dialysis about how a flu shot would affect me. __________________ "Freedom is not given. It is our right at birth. But there are some moments when it must be taken." ~Tagline from the movie "Amistad"~ "The Akan concept of Sankofa: In order to move forward we first have to take a step back. In other words, before we can be prepared for the future, we must comprehend the past." From "We Did It, They Hid It"

03-03-2005, 11:22 AM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	beestie - do i have to draw you a graph, or can i just tell you to shut up? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-23-2003, 11:05 AM	#2
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	only a small handful of them are really necessary...the rest may benefit the elderly or the weak, but are marketed to everybody..Ofcourse it's a MONEY thing...I've never gotten a flu shot..I haven't had the flu in 6 years. Half the people I know who got the flu shot got sick because of the shot........This is a little off topic, but I think it relates: I was a veterinary technician for a couple of years. The vets encouraged pet owners to come in every single year, because dogs/cats absolutely HAD to have their distemper shot or they would be at a SERIOUS risk...yeah right. the vaccine companies were sending literature to the vet, saying that the vaccines were being retested and that they actually only had to be given only every 3 years, and if given more often, they would make the pet be at a risk for tumors...well, the vets still are telling people to come on in every year and get those shots, because it brings them profit, and if the animal gets a tumor, well, even better...more profit. If there weren't any sick people then doctors wouldn't make any money...one more thing, the more you go, doesn't it seem the more unhealthier you are?

11-25-2003, 10:26 AM	#4
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	That polio vaccine was way overrated.

11-25-2003, 12:38 PM	#5
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The whole thing against vaccines sounds like a big conspiracy to me. (Slang?) I haven't looked at any new studies in a while, but from what I've seen, the medical evidence thus far shows that they are far more helpful than harmful. And with the way the world is today, you never know who has a vial of what. Imagine if we all had smallpox vaccinations...we probably wouldn't be as pressed about someone getting a hold of it.

12-03-2003, 11:14 AM	#9
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	why does god kill a kitten when you use margarine?

12-03-2003, 12:00 PM	#10
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Vaccines are like catastrophic-injury health insurance; the odds that you're going to be on the bullseye at any given time are extremely small, but should you hit the unlucky lottery, you're much better off with the vaccine than without. The vaccination <-> risk of autism connection (or lack thereof, depending on whose side you hear) is something I'd really like to know more about before I start pounding out any kids.

03-03-2005, 11:01 AM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4311613.stm "Scientists say they have strong evidence that the MMR vaccination is not linked to a rise in autism."

03-03-2005, 12:50 PM	#14
cjjulie Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: CT Posts: 201	I agree with Jinx, the chicken pox vaccine was the only one that got us. When it was first presented it was a voluntary thing which our Dr. said was not 100% and it was not certain if a booster would be needed in 10 years. When we went back with our son it was mandatory for entrance into the school system. Neither of our children has had chicken pox (bummer, I suppose). I would've rather they had the actual virus and not the vaccine as their antibodies would be more built up. I did have chicken pox when I was a kid and about 10 years ago I had shingles (same virus which lies dormant in a nerve until something triggers it). __________________ Fun,Fearless,Female

03-03-2005, 06:41 PM	#15
Brett's Honey whatever Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 308	I read somewhere a theory that the reason so many kids today get a lot of ear infections (which kids in my generation rarely had), allergies, and other little "bugs" is because they get vaccinated for everything, they don't get measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc., so their immune system never fights those illnesses and gets built up. Anyone heard anything similar to that...? Luckily, when I took my daughter for her 15 month shots, I told them that she was acting kind of sick and I had a doctor appointment scheduled for her. They decided to wait another month to give her the shots, since they don't give them to a child if they're very sick. As it turned out, she was diagnosed with neuroblastoma, a childhood cancer, and her immune system was already bottomed out. Had she gotten the shots, she could have developed one or more of the diseases that she was being vaccinated against, and it could have even been fatal. She didn't survive the cancer, but I did get to have her until she was 2 1/2 years old, which probably wouldn't have happened if she'd gotten her 15 month shots. At the very least, there would have been serious complications. Everyone needs to know how important it is that their kids do not get vaccines when they are sick! There are some folks who home school their children mainly because they refuse to get them the vaccines that public school requires.

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