Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and Don't Hum Showtunes

[richlevy]

This is a very sad commentary on what our leaders think is good for our national security.

Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. -- A decorated sergeant and Arabic language specialist was dismissed from the U.S. Army under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, though he says he never told his superiors he was gay and his accuser was never identified.
Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was "outed" by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C.
"I knew the policy going in," Copas said in an interview on the campus of East Tennessee State University, where he is pursuing a master's degree in counseling and working as a student adviser. "I knew it was going to be difficult.

This is a such a waste, literally.

But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills. Fifty-five were proficient in Arabic, including Copas, a graduate of the Defense Language Institute in California.
Discharging and replacing them has cost the Pentagon nearly $369 million, according to the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

I did find one humorous item in all of this, though.

On Dec. 2, investigators formally interviewed Copas and asked if he understood the military's policy on homosexuals, if he had any close acquaintances who were gay, and if he was involved in community theater. He answered affirmatively.

I think they have found a clever new way of finding gays in the military. Just get rid of all the guys who know at least two showtunes by heart or who know exactly how many Tonys Andre Lloyd Webber has won.

[lookout123]

i don't know this guy and don't really care that much about this particular situation, but... in all my time in the military i met and worked with many gay servicemembers. from E-1 to O-5. they weren't running around singing Judy Garland but they weren't living in fear either. Nobody really cared too much and nobody was out to "out" them. i did see a few cases of soldiers being outed because they were screwing up in other areas and their behavior just happened to open up this can of worms.

[wolf]

My friend from college who got sectioned out (military for 'politely asked to go home) spent his entire life in the closet, and for some reason (other than he wanted out of the military), came out as a flaming queen and manwhore during his second year in.

This was the early 80s.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Bleu Copas? I don't think he had to sing "Show Tunes," to be suspect.

Seems to me the CO should have said, I got emails saying you're queer, so I'm warning you, no sex with men on duty/base, or you're outta here.
Case closed.

[JayMcGee]

Lol!


funny but sad....

no wonder the rest of the world fears your military might.....

[Pie]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

no wonder the rest of the world fears your military might.....

Not enough showtunes?

[JayMcGee]

mmmm..... more like we fear what your military might do if we turn our backs.....

[lookout123]

you mean something like... it's job? the US military excels at the tasks they are supposed to complete - blow shit up and kill people. it's just when the politicians and those types get involved in things that the military starts looking bad.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

mmmm..... more like we fear what your military might do if we turn our backs.....

Don't be silly, they'll blow your face off just as fast. :p

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

mmmm..... more like we fear what your military might do if we turn our backs.....

I think one reason there so little grassroots UK support for Israel's response to Hezbullah is there's so few Brits alive today who remeber the Blitz.

They were kinda happy to see "your military" at the time, too.

When I was at Greenwich, I was looking at the statue of General Wolfe near the Observatory...and noted that the pedastal and steps leading up to it seemed to have been damaged, as if someone had taken a sledge to it randomly...but only on one side. Then it hit me: that statue was erected in 1930...and that what I was seeing was blast damage from the Blitz.



This was a couple days after the one year anniversary of the last London bombing by fascists.

[Sundae]

At a rough estimate, looking at the 2001 census I'd say about 9 million people in Britain today remember the Blitz, or at least the immediate after effects. Not making a point, just for the record because it interested me.

However this forum is the first time I've ever encountered real US opinions and it is the first time I've also ever encountered the belief that the US saved the world in two World Wars. I'm not going to question the facts - I'm sure it can be proved one way or another - but it seems to be a uniquely American point of view.

My Grandparents saw the US forces in London simply as a useful source of food and luxuries. They met working in a club frequented by Americans and used to hide leftover food in their clothes for their families. As far as they and my older Uncles (on the other side of the family) are concerned, everyone who could, fought. And unless they were lucky, died. Including children, women, OAPs. Everyone was in the same boat regardless of nationality except that the Americans (both at home and in the UK) seemed to be better fed.

The idea of being grateful to the Americans for the fighting part of it doesn't seem to have occurred to them - they just appreciated smuggling a fresh egg home in their pants, or being offered a pair of nylons as a tip. And that's what has been passed down through the generations all over the country as far as I am aware.

Would we have more support for Israel if we believed the Americans were saviours over 60 years ago? Personally I don't think so. I think our views of civilian deaths are coloured by the more recent Troubles. Also we have a smaller and less vocal Jewish community in this country, so we're more likely to see blame on both sides and simply abhor the killing.

[Undertoad]

I think our own history overstates our role in WW1. Not sure. But you've vastly understated the role of the US in WW2 and that's very sad to me.

The US took more losses in it than the UK, although the UK lost more relative to its population.

We were more than half the forces invading Normandy for example.

And you might remember this big-ass weapon we developed.

[xoxoxoBruce]

In WW I, when we finally got into it, I think our main contribution was to discard the "war of attrition - dig more trenches" mentality, that held sway for the previous four years. That had the effect of bringing the war to a conclusion, instead of going on for who knows how long.

WW II, however, was quite different. Churchill did a great job of convincing the British people that grit/ pluck/ stiff upper lip, would prevail. So much so, the Brits that lived through it, carried that belief with them to this day.

I believe England would have fallen to the Nazis before we could ramp up our military machine, without the support and material we were providing them.

Bare handed pluck = martyr.......... Pluck, with US supplied material = survivor.

It's pretty hard to deny the US was the big dog, the decisive factor, in determining the outcome of WW II. But, that said, if Britain owes us for our WW II efforts, we owe them for holding the line while we were ramping up, because the Nazis were after World domination, not just Europe.

Thank you.

[capnhowdy]

I read in a newspaper last week that James Dean avoided the draft because he admitted to being "an active member of the homosexual community".
The source quoted was JD's roommate, who is still alive at the time.
Ain't that a shocker?

[Sundae]

I wasn't saying that all the Americans did was provide illicit food, promise. I was simply relating the mood at the time, which has been passed on.

I think Bruce is right, the population was beaten down, bombed, tired, hungry and losing loved ones regularly - the only thing they had to hold onto was their pride. So the people who were actually there didn't feel saved. Therefore those of us who haven't actually studied WWII only have our relatives' opinions to go on.

My Granddad didn't fight and I'm still not sure why. Will have to ask if he "did a James Dean" next time I'm home...