Anyone being affected by Proposition 8?

[Apollo]

Or anyone you know being affected by any anti-gay laws that were passed this election?

I have a coulple friends in California that we're hoping to get married soon...not so much anymore.

Just wondering if there were any other stories out there.

[Radar]

I'm being affected by Prop 8. It's seriously pissing me off. I think each and every single person who voted for it should be deported. If you're stupid enough to think your rights include determining what rights other people have, you don't belong in America because you have no understanding of what rights are or what freedom means.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Radar

I think each and every single person who voted for it should be deported.

Hmmm.... interesting

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Radar

I think each and every single person who voted for it should be deported.

I acknowledge your retraction of this statement, but ...

If they were deported, and all snuck straight back in, would they then be illegal immigrants?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

I'm being affected by Prop 8. It's seriously pissing me off. I think each and every single person who voted for it should be deported. If you're stupid enough to think your rights include determining what rights other people have, you don't belong in America because you have no understanding of what rights are or what freedom means.

This specifically says things you believe to be fact:

1) You feel you are being affected by a group of individuals rights to use the system as it was set up and get a proposition on the ballot, open to a majority democratic vote.

2) You are pissed off by it. I can buy that but I can't buy your failure to recognize that others have a legal right to enact state law within the framework of their state constitution.

3) You think that these people are stupid, implying you are in some way smarter, which you are quite obviously not.

4) You have the right to determine that these people, legal US citizens, do not deserve to live in the US.

5) You are the only person who may determine an understanding of what rights are or what freedom means in this country. And you have been proven many times over to have nothing more than an opinion not based on anything other than your own understandings, misunderstandings, and prejudices. Many scholars disagree with you but you fail to recognize that others may have valid arguments which contradict your extreme views. And unfortunately for you, the scholars have credentials, you have none.

Now someone bring me some popcorn.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

This specifically says things you believe to be fact:

1) You feel you are being affected by a group of individuals rights to use the system as it was set up and get a proposition on the ballot, open to a majority democratic vote.

2) You are pissed off by it. I can buy that but I can't buy your failure to recognize that others have a legal right to enact state law within the framework of their state constitution.

3) You think that these people are stupid, implying you are in some way smarter, which you are quite obviously not.

4) You have the right to determine that these people, legal US citizens, do not deserve to live in the US.

5) You are the only person who may determine an understanding of what rights are or what freedom means in this country. And you have been proven many times over to have nothing more than an opinion not based on anything other than your own understandings, misunderstandings, and prejudices. Many scholars disagree with you but you fail to recognize that others may have valid arguments which contradict your extreme views. And unfortunately for you, the scholars have credentials, you have none.

Now someone bring me some popcorn.

Wrong as usual.

1. The group does NOT have a right to use the system to violate the rights of another. I'm affected because they are misusing the system. Democracy doesn't mean one group of people gets to vote on the rights of another. Not everything can be voted on.

2. The legitimate powers of government are derived from the rights of individuals. Since no person has the right to force another not to marry, they may not give this power to government. No framework allows this because it all comes down to this fact.

3. You're not in a position to judge my intelligence since I'm obviously far more intelligent and well-educated than you and I'm smarter than anyone who denies the existence of rights or who thinks they have the authority to vote on the rights of others.

4. Neither you, nor I have any right to determine whether or not others may come into America. The federal government has no authority in the matter, and we have no authority to grant government such a power since we, as individuals, do not have this power.

5. I have more than an "opinion" about it. I've proven each and every single thing I've ever said about the Constitution, the limitations on the powers of the federal government, my vast and accurate understanding of civics, the Constitution, the founders, and the meaning of freedom. I've backed up everything I've ever said with facts, reason, logic, and historical documentation. My views are not extreme in the slightest, but if they were, I'd remind you of Barry Goldwater's line...

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

Wrong as usual.

1. The group does NOT have a right to use the system to violate the rights of another. I'm affected because they are misusing the system. Democracy doesn't mean one group of people gets to vote on the rights of another. Not everything can be voted on.

2. The legitimate powers of government are derived from the rights of individuals. Since no person has the right to force another not to marry, they may not give this power to government. No framework allows this because it all comes down to this fact.

3. You're not in a position to judge my intelligence since I'm obviously far more intelligent and well-educated than you and I'm smarter than anyone who denies the existence of rights or who thinks they have the authority to vote on the rights of others.

4. Neither you, nor I have any right to determine whether or not others may come into America. The federal government has no authority in the matter, and we have no authority to grant government such a power since we, as individuals, do not have this power.

5. I have more than an "opinion" about it. I've proven each and every single thing I've ever said about the Constitution, the limitations on the powers of the federal government, my vast and accurate understanding of civics, the Constitution, the founders, and the meaning of freedom. I've backed up everything I've ever said with facts, reason, logic, and historical documentation. My views are not extreme in the slightest, but if they were, I'd remind you of Barry Goldwater's line...

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

Radar's Rantings and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html#npd

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Radar's Rantings and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html#npd

Stating that I'm more intelligent, well-educated, and well-reasoned than you is neither narcissistic, nor a disorder. It's just an accurate description of the facts.

Besides, you've got your own disorder to worry about...

[Pie]

I'm appalled that the Cali constitution can be modified by a simple majority vote. Doesn't this immediately lead to a "tyranny of the majority" situation? It can only be revoked with a 2/3 majority of the state congress and another majority referendum.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Pie

Doesn't this immediately lead to a "tyranny of the majority" situation?

Yes.

[Apollo]

Originally Posted by Pie

I'm appalled that the Cali constitution can be modified by a simple majority vote. Doesn't this immediately lead to a "tyranny of the majority" situation? It can only be revoked with a 2/3 majority of the state congress and another majority referendum.

I agree, it makes no sense.

It also angers me that so many people from outside the actual state of California were putting money into the "Vote Yes" campaign. i.e The Mormon and Catholic churchs. Proves once again that religion has more power than it should have.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Apollo

Proves once again that religion has more power than it should have.

Proves that any organized group wields more power - whether its a church, a lobby or anything else.

[Bullitt]

This thread has potential

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Pie

I'm appalled that the Cali constitution can be modified by a simple majority vote. Doesn't this immediately lead to a "tyranny of the majority" situation? It can only be revoked with a 2/3 majority of the state congress and another majority referendum.

Actually it's being challenged in court right now. Amendments are supposed to be a simple majority, but major changes to the fundamental structure of the Constitution like this one which basically change the Constitution from being an instrument to protect civil rights to being one that violates civil rights, must first be passed by the state legislature and if that happens, it has to get a 2/3 majority of all voters. There's no chance of that happening.

Because Prop 8 didn't follow this procedure, the California Supreme Court will shoot it down.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Radar

I'm being affected by Prop 8. It's seriously pissing me off. I think each and every single person who voted for it should be deported. If you're stupid enough to think your rights include determining what rights other people have, you don't belong in America because you have no understanding of what rights are or what freedom means.

Oh the irony.