9 years and 4500 Dead Americans

[Griff]

The final column of around 100 mostly U.S. military MRAP armored vehicles carrying 500 U.S. troops trundled across the southern Iraq desert from their last base through the night and daybreak along an empty highway to the Kuwaiti border.

Thus ends a tragic chapter of American history. We hope.

[Lamplighter]

Amen

[richlevy]

Not to mention the trillion or so dollars that we would all really like to have about now.

Enough to have paid for single payer health care, fixed our national infrastructure, fully funded Social Security.......

Hearing conservatives in Congress fight over every billion spent on social programs now, insisting on offsetting cuts, I keep wanting to scream 'WHERE WERE YOU ****OLES WHEN YOU DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO INCLUDE THE WAR IN THE BUDGET'.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Not to mention the trillion or so dollars that we would all really like to have about now.

Enough to have paid for single payer health care, fixed our national infrastructure, fully funded Social Security.......

Hearing conservatives in Congress fight over every billion spent on social programs now, insisting on offsetting cuts, I keep wanting to scream 'WHERE WERE YOU ****OLES WHEN YOU DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO INCLUDE THE WAR IN THE BUDGET'.

This. This. THIS YOU ****ING MORONS!!!!!!

I really don't know how much clearer it can be.

[JBKlyde]

It could have been a whole lot worse..

[tw]

Originally Posted by JBKlyde

It could have been a whole lot worse..

How could it have been worse? The president and his wackos from a conservative movement lied repeatedly to justify the massacre of over 100,000 Iraqi civilians. That $2billion war (just another of their hundreds of lies) has cost us $1trillion. And will probably cost up to $4trillion once we pay for so much scrapped equipment and the massive injuries incurred by so many soldiers. We have only just started to pay for that war - which is how economics work.

Why could it be worse when so many Americans gleefully believed outright lies from those, who promote a political agenda for their own self serving purposes, even massacred 4500 American soldiers for no purpose? I don't even know a probably larger numbers of American contractors also not counted. Murder because wacko extremists consider lying to be normal and acceptable.

To go to war means three requirements must always exist. But again, because so many will forget what was posted when scumbags were so giddy to massacre American soldiers. 1) A smoking gun. Never existed in Iraq. 2) A strategic objective. None existed. 3) An exit strategy. None existed until wackos were so discredited that they could no longer ignore what far more intelligent generals were saying all along.

Iraq is a defeat directly attributed to so many who espouse rhetoric from people such as UG. As one Iraqi civilian was recently quoted. He could walk home at 4 AM when Saddam was in power. I cannot even walk home safely today at 4 PM. None of the environmental conditions necessary to make a productive country exist in Iraq any more. And Iraqis rightly blame the reason - America. Maybe only Fox News forgets to report that well publized fact.

Now, let's go back to what was even posted here so many years ago. Sahdr quietly stopped conducting war when it became apparent that once America left, then he could take up his purpose. Sahdr went to Homs in Iran to finish his studies. Now that the 800 pound guerilla is gone, Iraqis are expected to pick up where they left off. A power struggle begins. It may remain where all conflicts and wars end - negotiated settlement. Or it may become violent. Now is when we really learn what we have done to subvert stability in that part of the world. We even left Iran with the most favorable influence ever in Iraq. The dumbest leaders America ever had - Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfovitz, Bolton Feith, etc - deserve all the credit. Feith, in particular, was so dumb that some American Generals told him so to his face.

To learn why America has so been harmed, see the political agenda that replaced pragmatic analysis. See the Project for a New American Century. Then review old Cellar discussions to learn how obviously destructive that agenda would be - accurately identified in the Cellar almost a decade ago.

Meanwhile, we had a real enemy in Afghanistan. Those same scumbags all but protected bin Laden. Even surrendered to the Taliban in 2002. That war is also a legacy of wacko extremist who even violated basic military doctrine taught in China 2000 years before Columbus. That surrender also traceable to wacko extremists who needed to attack Saddam to protect their legacy in history. Today's fiasco in Afghanistan directly traceable to wacko extremists who even said, "America does not do nation building."

Well, let's put up numbers traceable in part to the wackos who love war. In 1992 dollars, an American under 35 was averaging $45K annually. In those same 1992 dollars, an American under 35 was averaging $47K. In 2008, the average under 35 American averaged $32K. Of course. Nations who love war routinely destroy their economies. And let's not fool anyone. Due to what those wacko extremists did in Desert Storm, we have been at war for over 20 years.

It is not just George Jr's fault. His wacko extremists have done 20 years of damage to America in the name of a political agenda (ie Project for a New American Century), conservatism, and by just being plain dumb. Then blame liberal press, liberal parties, liberal universities, liberal ... what ever they could invent for all failures. How many times would they deny and contradict well proven military doctrine defined over 2500 years ago? Even with six on every hand, I don't have enough fingers.

If it could have been worse, then show me what other military doctrine they did not violate? And show me with numbers. $4trillion. 100,000+ dead. 4,500 massacred for no purpose. Surrender to the Taliban. All but protected bin Laden. 20 years of war directly traceable to their drinking champaign rather than providing Swartzkopf the work they were required to do before Desert Storm started. How could anyone in a position of power be dumber?

[Beest]

Originally Posted by Brianna

This. This. THIS YOU ****ING MORONS!!!!!!

I really don't know how much clearer it can be.

They are playing this a lot in my area.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Beest

They are playing this a lot in my area.

I LOVE THIS COMMERCIAL. I watch Politics Nation with Sharpton nearly every day when I get home from work, and while I don't always agree with him and often find his style irritating, I can't get enough of him talking about bluhbr'y paah.

edit: Kenan Thompson doing Rev. Al on SNL a few weeks ago. http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...arpton/1372907

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Brianna

This. This. THIS YOU ****ING MORONS!!!!!!

I really don't know how much clearer it can be.

What is clear is you don't know either the value or the importance of breaking a tyranny whenever you can. We could and we did. You can only see the cost. I see the benefit.

I'm not a Fascist, Brianna, but those guys were (go ahead, look it up), and you look a lot like one right here. Now compare your semblances to mine.

[Griff]

Those guys were Baathist. They were Arab socialist, anti-colonialist, and anti-imperialists. He slid into a dictatorial regime like a lot of lefty insurgents, but was not a fascist. Like it or not fascism is a product of the totalitarian right not the totalitarian left. Islamo-fascist was great war propaganda but poor political science.

[classicman]

I'm ecstatic that we are outta there. I really don't believe it though. There are so many contractors/hired hitmen and more that will most likely never leave.

Also this part rankles me a bit:

For U.S. President Barack Obama, the military pullout is the fulfillment of an election promise to bring troops home from a conflict inherited from his predecessor, the most unpopular war since Vietnam and one that tainted America's standing worldwide.

From Media Matters:

Bush agreed to timeline for withdrawal from Iraq
Iraq and U.S. agree that all U.S. forces will withdraw "no later than December 31, 2011.
" On November 17, 2008, US and Iraqi officials signed a Security Agreement, often referred to as a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), stating that "All the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011."

[glatt]

Yes. This was Bush's war. From start to finish. He deserves all the credit.

[Undertoad]

tw, what are the strategic objectives and exit strategy in Afghanistan?

[SamIam]

Do we have even have an exit strategy in Afghanistan? We got rid of Bin Laden - finally! Lets get out of Afghanistan, too, already.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Do we have even have an exit strategy in Afghanistan? We got rid of Bin Laden - finally! Lets get out of Afghanistan, too, already.

Personally, I just can't get tired of obliterating tyrannies, and can't understand or appreciate those who do.

I've seen what less-than-democracies behave like. It's enough to make you clean and re-clean your assault rifle and hone your bayonet most of the afternoon, I'm tellin' ya.

The worthwhile "exit strategy" is spelled W-I-N. Regardless of resistance, uncaring of time. Make that which is less-than-democracy or pretends-to-democracy extinct. Your world will improve.