What is a hobby breeder?

Nirvana · 03-21-2009, 12:09 AM

What is a Hobby Breeder

Note: this is written from the perspective of dog breeder hobbyists. While the same ethical principles apply to a hobby breeder’s management of a breeding program for dogs or cats, there are some differences in dog and cat breeding practices, such as the appropriate times to breed, that are specific to each species.

Hobby Breeders are dedicated to the preservation of a particular breed of dog or cat.

We do not mass-produce animals. We do not breed our female animals at every estrus throughout their lives. We rarely make any profit from breeding a litter of kittens or puppies. Hobby breeders do not “make a living” from their endeavors and very few even derive a significant portion of their income from breeding their animals. Our litters do not buy us fancy boats or exotic vacations. We feel we’ve done well if a litter “pays for itself,” and occasionally there’s a bit left over to buy new equipment or even attend a competition we would have skipped otherwise. There’s nothing wrong with a breeder making a profit, of course, but it isn’t the primary goal.

We test our potential breeding animals for known adverse conditions they might pass on to their offspring, to the extent that tests are available (DNA and other laboratory analyses, x-rays, physical exams by veterinarians with expertise in a condition). Some tests must be repeated annually to determine whether a late-developing condition has appeared. Even conditions that may not affect the animal’s suitability as a pet and its quality of life are of concern to the breeder.

While tests do not yet exist for every condition in every breed, we support research to find a means of identifying heritable adverse conditions within our breeds so we can reduce occurrences in our litters. The same adverse conditions sometimes found in purebred dogs and cats are also present in mixed-breed animals if the ancestors had them. The breeding of purebreds does not create “genetic defects” and the crossing of breeds within a species does not eliminate them. Hobby Breeders are knowledgeable about their breed’s health issues and take responsibility to breed away from them.

Purebred breeders carefully select breeding animals for traits established by a “breed standard” adopted by a national parent club for that breed and endorsed by a national registry organization. Physical appearance, temperament, and health and longevity of parents and ancestors are taken into consideration when planning a breeding. Breeders research the pedigree and health clearances of potential mates – hobby breeders do not mate just any two animals that happen to be of the same breed.

When a litter is produced, it is carefully raised in an appropriate physical environment. Veterinary care, socialization, exercise, good nutrition, and training are essential elements of raising a healthy litter. Hobby breeders generally sell pets with a requirement that those not of breeding quality will be spayed or neutered (S/N) by their new owners when they reach an appropriate age. Healthy pets must reach a certain level of physical maturity before they can safely be altered - juvenile S/N can interfere with the normal growth of a pet and predispose it to abnormal bone development, incontinence, and illnesses including certain cancers in later life.

Hobby breeders often keep one or more of the puppies in a litter that has the potential to grow into a future show prospect and/or compete in performance activities appropriate to the breed. Many dog breeds were developed specifically to perform work such as herding and hunting, and their ability to do this is demonstrated in field trials governed by the registry organizations and by actually working at this job with owners who hunt or keep livestock.

A Hobby Breeder’s next generation can’t be determined immediately, and those that appear to have potential for future breeding are raised by the breeder for several months, or placed with other knowledgeable breeders, so structure and temperament can be assessed and health clearances begun. In some breeds, exams can’t determine the absence or presence or degree of a potentially adverse health condition until the animal is fully mature – and this can be at least two years in some breeds. Thus, Hobby Breeders often have adult intact animals that have not been, and may never be used for breeding. Many Hobby Breeders don’t consider using an animal for breeding, regardless of its pedigree and health clearances, unless it can demonstrate its superior quality in the show ring and/or performance arena, or by “doing its job” in real-life conditions.

Most Hobby Breeders belong to clubs on a local or national level that have a Code of Ethics whose provisions they follow. Typical elements include:

• Puppies are sold directly to carefully screened buyers, not through brokers or pet stores.
• Pet-quality animals will be sold with spay/neuter contracts, and on limited registration or without registration until evidence of S/N is provided to the breeder.
• Puppies/kittens will have age-appropriate immunizations and other veterinary care before they are transferred to a new owner.
• Buyers will be given documentation including the pedigree, health history, and instructions for care and training of their new companion; the breeder will assist the buyer in dealing with problem behavior, health care issues, and other concerns that may arise.
• Throughout the pet’s lifetime, the breeder will accept the return of the pet they bred or assist in re-homing it if the owner cannot keep it – for any reason.

Hobby Breeders do not want their puppies/kittens in homes where they won’t be good companions because of size, personality, physical requirements, and other breed traits, so we screen potential buyers and offer continuing support to those we sell to. We do not want the pets we produce to be given to shelters or rescue organizations because there wasn’t a good match between breed and buyer, or because the buyer’s circumstances change due to illness, relocation, divorce, or any lifestyle factor that may affect their ability to keep a pet. Many of us volunteer at our local animal shelters, foster and re-home pets for our breed’s rescue group, or contribute financial support to these efforts.

We value our animals. They are not neglected or abused, or allowed to be a nuisance to our neighbors or a danger to our communities. Just as people who ski, sail, or play golf may make substantial financial and time investments in order to enjoy their hobby, we have chosen to raise and show our dogs and cats because of the enjoyment they give us and our commitment to their well-being and the continuation of quality in their particular breed.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-21-2009, 03:24 PM

C'mon, admit it... you're just into animal sex, aren't you.

Seriously, what you have described is the best case scenario, but people being people will stray from that. There will always be people that will claim to believe exactly what you've described, but in reality cut a corner here or there. And a few that will cut enough corners to create a circle. Those people will bring down the heat on the rest, and of course the governments answer is alway draconian on everyone.

Nirvana · 03-21-2009, 03:47 PM

All I can tell you is that is the way I roll!

People will be into extremes on either side of an issue. I find that the middle way is always the best.

DanaC · 03-21-2009, 06:49 PM

I gotta admit...I wasnt expecting it to be about dogs...

Crimson Ghost · 03-22-2009, 12:10 AM

What is a hobby breeder?

Octo-mom?

sugarpop · 03-28-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

What is a hobby breeder?

Octo-mom?

That's what I was thinking!

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 12:50 AM

My mother was a hobby breeder...Cairn Terriors. Everything Nirvana lists about it is true.

However.

What Nirvana is neglecting to see is that her 'hobby' begets such things as puppy mills. And those puppy mills end up causing a lot of misery and harm to dogs.

I'm really disappointed to see that her one sided enthusiasm for her 'hobby' prevents her from admitting to the offshoot horrors that arise from it and also thus ignoring the necessary controls or regulations that are needed to prevent those horrors.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 01:06 AM

Restaurants beget ptomaine carts. You mean we must outlaw all restaurants to stop the ptomaine carts? They certainly can determine the standards to differentiate the two and write rules for each, can't they?

In PA recently they caught two brothers running adjacent puppy mills. As soon as the brothers got wind of it they killed all the dogs. The state's immediate proposed solution was nobody be allowed to kill a dog except a vet.
That's the way government works, they have a hammer and every problem becomes a nail.

Nirvana · 03-22-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

My mother was a hobby breeder...Cairn Terriors. Everything Nirvana lists about it is true.

However.

What Nirvana is neglecting to see is that her 'hobby' begets such things as puppy mills. And those puppy mills end up causing a lot of misery and harm to dogs.

I'm really disappointed to see that her one sided enthusiasm for her 'hobby' prevents her from admitting to the offshoot horrors that arise from it and also thus ignoring the necessary controls or regulations that are needed to prevent those horrors.

You know nothing about me Pico obviously. My hobby begets no such thing. I have bred dogs for 20 years and not one single dog with my pedigrees is in any puppy mill in the United States or the world. Screening and diligence is the key and some people just cannot resist being greedy, I am not one of those people. Most of the intact dogs I placed are in Europe in countries that do not allow pet mills because they have breed wardens. Those are people answerable to the government that gives breeders permission to breed their dogs using a certain strict criteria. Its pretty difficult if not impossible to pet mill in most European countries. There are plenty of hobby breeders with the same value system I have.

monster · 03-22-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana

You know nothing about me Pico obviously. My hobby begets no such thing. I have bred dogs for 20 years and not one single dog with my pedigrees is in any puppy mill in the United States or the world. Screening and diligence is the key and some people just cannot resist being greedy, I am not one of those people. Most of the intact dogs I placed are in Europe in countries that do not allow pet mills because they have breed wardens. Those are people answerable to the government that gives breeders permission to breed their dogs using a certain strict criteria. Its pretty difficult if not impossible to pet mill in most European countries. There are plenty of hobby breeders with the same value system I have.

I got the impression that she was saying that your (and other hobby breeders) excellent style of breeding creates a demand for the breed that you simply cannot satisfy, so it generates the creation of puppy mills by the unscrupulous to satify the needs of those whos want one but can't afford/can't wait/don't understand the difference.... and so to a certain extent that makes puppy mills a side effect of your hobby...?

classicman · 03-22-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana

not one single dog with my pedigrees is in any puppy mill in the United States or the world.

That seems like a rather bold statement - How exactly do you track them and their offspring and their offspring and so on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana

There are plenty of hobby breeders with the same value system I have.

And there are many who do not. The question is how to stop one while promoting more of the other.

Nirvana · 03-22-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

That seems like a rather bold statement - How exactly do you track them and their offspring and their offspring and so on?

And there are many who do not. The question is how to stop one while promoting more of the other.

Not only is it bold it is factual. I explained why I know where the dogs are that I personally have sold. BREED WARDENS. I have sold less than 20 dogs intact since I have been breeding. Not too hard to track twenty dogs.
I know people that have 30 dogs. Not a number that I would keep and breed but they have plenty of help and the place is clean and the dogs are well cared for, who the hell am I to tell them how many dogs they can breed or keep? Who the hell is anyone else to tell someone what they can do with their time and money as long as it is not affecting you or harming the dogs?

classicman · 03-22-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Not only is it bold it is factual. I explained why I know where the dogs are that I personally have sold. BREED WARDENS. I have sold less than 20 dogs intact since I have been breeding. Not too hard to track twenty dogs.

... from 20 dogs over 20 years and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and
their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters, and their litters....

How man litters a year? 2 - 4? at how many pups per litter and all those litters litters.
Most of which are being bred overseas. The numbers grow rather quickly.
One would think it most difficult to track all of them, if not impossible. Just sayin.
But there is probably a simple explanation.

Pico and ME · 03-22-2009, 01:10 AM

WTF are you talking bout Bruce. Overreaction much? Maybe?

xoxoxoBruce · 03-22-2009, 01:15 AM

I'm talking about your "offshoot horrors", or have you forgotten them already?

03-21-2009, 12:09 AM	#1
Nirvana Back in 10 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,684	What is a hobby breeder? What is a Hobby Breeder Note: this is written from the perspective of dog breeder hobbyists. While the same ethical principles apply to a hobby breeder’s management of a breeding program for dogs or cats, there are some differences in dog and cat breeding practices, such as the appropriate times to breed, that are specific to each species. Hobby Breeders are dedicated to the preservation of a particular breed of dog or cat. We do not mass-produce animals. We do not breed our female animals at every estrus throughout their lives. We rarely make any profit from breeding a litter of kittens or puppies. Hobby breeders do not “make a living” from their endeavors and very few even derive a significant portion of their income from breeding their animals. Our litters do not buy us fancy boats or exotic vacations. We feel we’ve done well if a litter “pays for itself,” and occasionally there’s a bit left over to buy new equipment or even attend a competition we would have skipped otherwise. There’s nothing wrong with a breeder making a profit, of course, but it isn’t the primary goal. We test our potential breeding animals for known adverse conditions they might pass on to their offspring, to the extent that tests are available (DNA and other laboratory analyses, x-rays, physical exams by veterinarians with expertise in a condition). Some tests must be repeated annually to determine whether a late-developing condition has appeared. Even conditions that may not affect the animal’s suitability as a pet and its quality of life are of concern to the breeder. While tests do not yet exist for every condition in every breed, we support research to find a means of identifying heritable adverse conditions within our breeds so we can reduce occurrences in our litters. The same adverse conditions sometimes found in purebred dogs and cats are also present in mixed-breed animals if the ancestors had them. The breeding of purebreds does not create “genetic defects” and the crossing of breeds within a species does not eliminate them. Hobby Breeders are knowledgeable about their breed’s health issues and take responsibility to breed away from them. Purebred breeders carefully select breeding animals for traits established by a “breed standard” adopted by a national parent club for that breed and endorsed by a national registry organization. Physical appearance, temperament, and health and longevity of parents and ancestors are taken into consideration when planning a breeding. Breeders research the pedigree and health clearances of potential mates – hobby breeders do not mate just any two animals that happen to be of the same breed. When a litter is produced, it is carefully raised in an appropriate physical environment. Veterinary care, socialization, exercise, good nutrition, and training are essential elements of raising a healthy litter. Hobby breeders generally sell pets with a requirement that those not of breeding quality will be spayed or neutered (S/N) by their new owners when they reach an appropriate age. Healthy pets must reach a certain level of physical maturity before they can safely be altered - juvenile S/N can interfere with the normal growth of a pet and predispose it to abnormal bone development, incontinence, and illnesses including certain cancers in later life. Hobby breeders often keep one or more of the puppies in a litter that has the potential to grow into a future show prospect and/or compete in performance activities appropriate to the breed. Many dog breeds were developed specifically to perform work such as herding and hunting, and their ability to do this is demonstrated in field trials governed by the registry organizations and by actually working at this job with owners who hunt or keep livestock. A Hobby Breeder’s next generation can’t be determined immediately, and those that appear to have potential for future breeding are raised by the breeder for several months, or placed with other knowledgeable breeders, so structure and temperament can be assessed and health clearances begun. In some breeds, exams can’t determine the absence or presence or degree of a potentially adverse health condition until the animal is fully mature – and this can be at least two years in some breeds. Thus, Hobby Breeders often have adult intact animals that have not been, and may never be used for breeding. Many Hobby Breeders don’t consider using an animal for breeding, regardless of its pedigree and health clearances, unless it can demonstrate its superior quality in the show ring and/or performance arena, or by “doing its job” in real-life conditions. Most Hobby Breeders belong to clubs on a local or national level that have a Code of Ethics whose provisions they follow. Typical elements include: • Puppies are sold directly to carefully screened buyers, not through brokers or pet stores. • Pet-quality animals will be sold with spay/neuter contracts, and on limited registration or without registration until evidence of S/N is provided to the breeder. • Puppies/kittens will have age-appropriate immunizations and other veterinary care before they are transferred to a new owner. • Buyers will be given documentation including the pedigree, health history, and instructions for care and training of their new companion; the breeder will assist the buyer in dealing with problem behavior, health care issues, and other concerns that may arise. • Throughout the pet’s lifetime, the breeder will accept the return of the pet they bred or assist in re-homing it if the owner cannot keep it – for any reason. Hobby Breeders do not want their puppies/kittens in homes where they won’t be good companions because of size, personality, physical requirements, and other breed traits, so we screen potential buyers and offer continuing support to those we sell to. We do not want the pets we produce to be given to shelters or rescue organizations because there wasn’t a good match between breed and buyer, or because the buyer’s circumstances change due to illness, relocation, divorce, or any lifestyle factor that may affect their ability to keep a pet. Many of us volunteer at our local animal shelters, foster and re-home pets for our breed’s rescue group, or contribute financial support to these efforts. We value our animals. They are not neglected or abused, or allowed to be a nuisance to our neighbors or a danger to our communities. Just as people who ski, sail, or play golf may make substantial financial and time investments in order to enjoy their hobby, we have chosen to raise and show our dogs and cats because of the enjoyment they give us and our commitment to their well-being and the continuation of quality in their particular breed. __________________ Speaking simply... do not confuse this with having a simple mind.

03-21-2009, 03:24 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	C'mon, admit it... you're just into animal sex, aren't you. Seriously, what you have described is the best case scenario, but people being people will stray from that. There will always be people that will claim to believe exactly what you've described, but in reality cut a corner here or there. And a few that will cut enough corners to create a circle. Those people will bring down the heat on the rest, and of course the governments answer is alway draconian on everyone. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-21-2009, 03:47 PM	#3
Nirvana Back in 10 Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,684	All I can tell you is that is the way I roll! People will be into extremes on either side of an issue. I find that the middle way is always the best. __________________ Speaking simply... do not confuse this with having a simple mind.

03-22-2009, 12:10 AM	#5
Crimson Ghost Larger than life and twice as ugly. Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,264	What is a hobby breeder? Octo-mom? __________________ We must all go through a rite of passage. It must be physical, it must be painful, and it must leave a mark. I have no knowledge of the events which you are describing, and if I did have knowledge of them, I would be unable to discuss them with you now or at any future period. Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years

03-22-2009, 12:50 AM	#7
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	My mother was a hobby breeder...Cairn Terriors. Everything Nirvana lists about it is true. However. What Nirvana is neglecting to see is that her 'hobby' begets such things as puppy mills. And those puppy mills end up causing a lot of misery and harm to dogs. I'm really disappointed to see that her one sided enthusiasm for her 'hobby' prevents her from admitting to the offshoot horrors that arise from it and also thus ignoring the necessary controls or regulations that are needed to prevent those horrors. Last edited by Pico and ME; 03-22-2009 at 01:07 AM.

03-21-2009, 06:49 PM	#4
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I gotta admit...I wasnt expecting it to be about dogs...

03-22-2009, 01:06 AM	#8
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Restaurants beget ptomaine carts. You mean we must outlaw all restaurants to stop the ptomaine carts? They certainly can determine the standards to differentiate the two and write rules for each, can't they? In PA recently they caught two brothers running adjacent puppy mills. As soon as the brothers got wind of it they killed all the dogs. The state's immediate proposed solution was nobody be allowed to kill a dog except a vet. That's the way government works, they have a hammer and every problem becomes a nail. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-22-2009, 01:10 AM	#14
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	WTF are you talking bout Bruce. Overreaction much? Maybe?

03-22-2009, 01:15 AM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I'm talking about your "offshoot horrors", or have you forgotten them already? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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