A Spanish Inquisition

[tw]

Only recently have the leaks about corruption in highest levels of government started flowing everywhere. Just another example of a story that could not be documented do to lack of information.
He was imprisioned for six months - tortured - because, as neighborhood mayor,

he loudly complained to the military, human rights organizations and the news media about soldiers' dumping garbage on a local soccer field.

We only know of his story because Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are slowly getting to a truth that George Jr hopes you forget. Clearly enlistedmen planned to torture prisoners. They brought dog collars and knowledge of how to shock people without killing them. George Jr had absolutely no relationship to Major General Miller who was transfered by the administration from Guantanamo to not teach torture in Abu Ghraid. General Miller is seeking early retirement from the military - maybe to get out and get his pension before more leaks document his relationship to both torture and the George Jr administration?

The story of Ali Shalal is in 11 Mar 2006 NY Times as Symbol of Abu Ghraib Seeks to Spare Others His Nightmare Also look at his business card.

[tw]

I am often struck by fringe extremists who cite Al Jazeera as anti-American. You could not be - by definition - more patriotic American if doing what Al Jazeera does. And example from the NY Times of 11 Mar 2006:

For Muslim Who Says Violence Destroys Islam, Violent Threats
Dr. Sultan bitterly criticized the Muslim clerics, holy warriors and political leaders who she believes have distorted the teachings of Muhammad and the Koran for 14 centuries.

She said the world's Muslims, whom she compares unfavorably with the Jews, have descended into a vortex of self-pity and violence.

Dr. Sultan said the world was not witnessing a clash of religions or cultures, but a battle between modernity and barbarism, a battle that the forces of violent, reactionary Islam are destined to lose. ...
"The Jews have come from the tragedy and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror; with their work, not with their crying and yelling."

She went on, "We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people."

She concluded, "Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."

Is it an accident that Al Jazeera facitlities both in Iraq and in Afghanistan were attacked by American planes? One missile striking that building only on the floor where Al Jazeera was located.

[fargon]

A historical question, or my own bullshit you decide. in April '79 why didnt The peaceful Moslems take over the Soviet Embassy in stead of ours. The Soviet Union had a history of persicuiting Moslems. They didn't take over that embassy because the peaceful moslem extreemists would be looking at Red Army Tanks within 48 hours.

As far as I'm concerned Moslem Extreemists are a bunch of murdering asslickers, and need to be fed thier own cocks, if you can find them.

[Griff]

Read a book, fargon.

We knocked off their elected government in 1953.

[fargon]

So

[richlevy]

From the NY Times story.

Financed partly by Arab nongovernmental organizations and private donations, the group's aim is to publicize the cases of prisoners still in custody, and to support prisoners and their families with donations of clothing and food.

What's ironic is that when Americans try to do this they get killed.

Fox, a father of two, had expressed concern in an article written the day before his abduction about the dehumanisation of Iraqis amid a raging insurgency and U.S. responses that he said often claimed the lives of innocents.

In one of his many visits to the region, maybe President Bush should tour the prisons. They are after all, his responsibility and legacy, just as they were for Saddam Hussein.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by fargon

So

They were making a run at building a modern liberal state, not an ideal government but better than they had. We thwarted their attempt, empowering the nut job Islamists. In their minds we represent oppression not freedom. I can't get over you radical interventionists and your fantasies about our virtuous foreign policy. Are the radical Islamists evil? Of course. Is a policy that empowers them evil? Absolutely.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I can't get over you radical interventionists and your fantasies about our virtuous foreign policy.

Fargon? A radical interventionist? I thought he was just a dirty old man, like me.

I suspect that Fargon, like most of the American public (me included) really don't have a handle on all the shit the US has had a hand in, beyond the evening news on TV. You know the networks weren't very good at giving background or tying different events together in a easily understood pattern.

It wasn't even until Nixon, that we knew what scumbags most of them are.
Sure we knew they were washing each others backs and those of major contributors, but that was internal.....family business.
But we didn't really understand how badly they were fucking with the neighbors, since school days, if then.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Fargon? A radical interventionist? I thought he was just a dirty old man, like me.

Yah, I gotta watch my tone. sorry

[fargon]

Lest we forget that these wonderful and peaceful people cut the heads off people they kidnap.

[Elspode]

Its alright, though, because God wants them to do it. It helps bring people closer to divine enlightenment, or some bullshit like that.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by fargon

Lest we forget that these wonderful and peaceful people cut the heads off people they kidnap.

That's true. We of course prefer 'waterboarding' and attaching electrodes to testicles, which is the 'compassionate conservative' approach.

Still, by some reports, we have only killed about 100 prisoners in 4 years, so I guess we're the good guys by comparison.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by fargon

Lest we forget that these wonderful and peaceful people cut the heads off people they kidnap.

And by torturing, we look more and more like them. The difference between torturing and muder is only degree.

Yeah, we only do cool stuff like zip people up into sleeping bags and strangle them with electrical cord.

[FallenFairy]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

And by torturing, we look more and more like them. The difference between torturing and muder is only degree.

Absolutely - makes it a lot harder to continue to fight the "barbarians and heathens" when we can't tell the difference between "them and us".