Strange encounter

By way of introduction, I believe I have mentioned in the past that I have a small part time gig selling flowers in clubs and bars on weekends and on the holidays. Its my own little biz, I get the flowers from a wholesaler, and average roughly $100/week for 4 hours work on Friday and Saturday nights. As a good will gesture (which reaps vast benefits, BTW), I give the staff and owners of the places on my route free flowers for the holidays.

So, late this afternoon, I went around my route and gave out flowers to the owners and managers of the establishments that let me do business with their customers. Well, the last stop I made, the bar owner was there in a congenial mood, and we got to talking and he bought me 3 drinks. I was feeling a little tipsy and realized I'd better eat something and sit at the bar for a while or risk a DUI, so I ordered some pizza and as I was eating it, a person of indistinct gender entered the bar and sat down one bar stool away from me.

This person had obviously been celebrating Easter all day long and was in a very loquacious mood. I had the worst time figuring out if s/he was a woman or a man, but over the course of a about an hour "he" gradually told me "his" story. He said that he had been born a woman and actually had been married and had a child when he had had to let his true male self out and get hormone shots. This part of the story rang true to me, because he was the most effeminate looking man I'd ever seen except for a wispy trace of beard on his chin.

He told me that he preferred to be referred to by the male gender because this is what he felt he was meant to be, and only a cruel mistake of nature had caused him to be born outwardly a woman. Thank God for modern medicine, right? But then he went on to say that he was NOT a lesbian, but was attracted to men, and had a male lover at the moment.

I've been trying to wrap my mind around this one every since. I have no prejudice toward either gays or lesbians and have had friends of both flavors. I couldn't care less as long as they understand that I am irredeemably straight, don't even bother trying and embarrassing us both.

But why on earth would a woman turn herself into a man in order to have a gay male lover? Life is complicated enough without being a female homosexual. We tend to be a bit backward sometimes in Colorado, so am I just hopelessly out of it, or does it strike anyone else as bizarre as it does me?

[WabUfvot5]

That sounds straight out of SF! Geez Mari, you could pay 10x the rent and meat 10x more people like this if you lived on the Left Coast :P

Some people get ideas. Some act on them. I doubt all he went through was fun. He did what made him comfortable and for all I know maybe the thought of finding a man never entered into it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Staying a woman, she couldn't have a gay male lover.
But if she just had hormone therapy and not surgery, what would attract a gay male lover to the wrong equipment?
Give it up Mari, you'll only get a headache with this one.

[richlevy]

Mari, you should talk to some of your fellow Cellar members about this. There is/was a significant transgendered presence here.

Actually, I can think of one person who might have a perspective, although not from the female-to-male side.

Originally Posted by richlevy

Mari, you should talk to some of your fellow Cellar members about this. There is/was a significant transgendered presence here.

Actually, I can think of one person who might have a perspective, although not from the female-to-male side.

Yes, I was hoping that person might see this and make a reply. One hates to be intrusive into someone else's private life, however.

I can understand a male feeling that he was born into the wrong body and being attracted to other men, just as I can understand how a woman who is lesbian might feel that way. But darned if I can understand someone with as many as twists and turns as the "man" in the bar next to me the other evening. The psychology of this fascinates me, and I don't have a clue about it. I don't think I've ever read about such a situation before, much less met someone who is LIVING it.

[Elspode]

It is my understanding that this isn't as unusual (well, okay...it isn't as *rare*) as it might seem at first. I've met at least one person that I can think of who underwent gender reassignment from male to female, and then took up with women, so that gate apparently swings both ways.

The human machine is amazingly complex, idnit?

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Actually, I can think of one person who might have a perspective, although not from the female-to-male side.

Originally Posted by marichiko

Yes, I was hoping that person might see this and make a reply. One hates to be intrusive into someone else's private life, however.

You guys don't have to be coy. I make no secret of being a lesbian trapped in a man's body. no big whoop.

i just loves me the ladies, thass all!

[barefoot serpent]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

Geez Mari, you could pay 10x the rent and meat 10x more people like this if you lived on the Left Coast :P

it's not the meat... it's the motion.

[wolf]

One theory I have about this is sexual preference is determined early in life, and tends to be resistant to change, regardless of gender of birth or reassignment.

[Kagen4o4]

theres gotta be someone for everything. just think about this. the "guys" boyfriend is a born male attracted to a converted woman.

[Rock Steady]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

... I make no secret of being a lesbian trapped in a man's body. ...

This is news to me. There is a difference when one thinks about breaking out of the trap. And, I haven't seen you try to do that.

[Skunks]

I think what is fouling up your thinking is that you are considering this from the perspective of "what kind of sex does this person have." It has been my (albeit limited) experience that transgendered people do not have sex change operations in the name of their sex life, but, rather, so that their body better matches their gender.

A homosexual man is a man who is sexually attracted to males.
A transgendered man is a man whose gender identity is male, but biological gender is not.

So if you disassociate sexual attraction from gender: Pat could be attracted to males or females, but either way it is dependent on he or she, and not on his or her gender,

And if you disassociate gender identity from biological gender: Pat could identify as male or female, but either way it is dependent on which he or she feels is accurate, and not on his or her genitals,

Then your friend having a sex change operation only to continue having sex with men is not so much a flipflop or backstep as two separate decisions: (1) who he is, and (2) who he is attracted to.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Skunks

So if you disassociate sexual attraction from gender: Pat could be attracted to males or females, but either way it is dependent on he or she, and not on his or her gender,

And if you disassociate gender identity from biological gender: Pat could identify as male or female, but either way it is dependent on which he or she feels is accurate, and not on his or her genitals,

OK, but my question remains on the table. What's the attraction of her Gay Male Lover to her since she apparently still has female plumbing?

[mrnoodle]

It could also be that some people are deeply, deeply confused about life. The transgendered thing seems odd enough, but I'm hung up on something Kagen404 said. Is his/her lover a gay man? bi? only attracted to TGs? Straight, but likes butch women?

Their minds must be dark, scary places. (not a slam, i'm just saying)

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Their minds must be dark, scary places. (not a slam, i'm just saying)

Not necessarily. I know a lot of sexually ambiguous, gay and otherwise "abnormal" people. Most of them, or at least no more than the general population of "normal" people, are rather well-adjusted.

I think the key is in accepting who and what you are.